Spring / Summer 2026 music thread

@achangeofnameisasgoodasarest is it decision paralysis? Could you help her pick a highly structured format, like, say, a Mag and Nunc? I know not of what I speak though.

Our friend who is now organ scholar at a large college on the river in Oxford did a string quartet for his A-level equivalent. He turned it into an exercise in shoehorning in every motif like BACH and DSCH in as many ways as possible, while pastiching the original pieces the motifs had come from. It hung together OK but could perhaps have been less complicated.

Totally agree with @MockCroc on the theory. DD2 did it at 10. She did fine, but remembered nothing later.

It feels bizarre to now have to put it on her UCAS form now - like a total fraud. She is doing higher 'theory' as part of her A Level but won't take exams in it.

As an organist @DitheringMusicParent he really will just imbibe what he needs. DDs friends who do organ are now taking things like advanced counterpoint diplomas in Year 12, that she wouldn't be able to tackle at all - grade 5 will seem irrelevant. He really doesn't need it, or other exams, yet. It will come later.

We are having tearful composition stress from DD2. It's 25% of the A Level, she hates it, feels very unequipped compared to the rest of her class - she's in the top set for music, which in her school (might be the only one in the country that only sets for music) is quite a thing.

Everyone else is a genius, she says, and she can't do it. In fact, everyone else is a pianist, or an organist, or first study composition, or took their music gcse at 13 - many of them are all of those things.

She is in the top set because the rest of her music is very, very good. On the long essay questions for example she gets the top marks in the year by some way and she needs that top level teaching. How can we help her (without actually helping her write music IYSWIM) get the comp over the line this summer so it's better? She has MuseScore(?). Sometimes it feels like music A Level is in fact three a levels. She's great at the Appraisal and Performance bit and the comp really lets her down.

Totally agree, and yes, I think he's too young and ADHD-inattentive (despite medication) for it to be anything other than a cramming exercise, which as you say, he'll forget 3 weeks later. Much better to tackle it later on when he's decided he needs it. As per toilet training which took 2 days, and shoelaces which took 20 minutes, when he was ready (and not a moment before).

I find with him I constantly have to tread the tightrope between "he's too young, immature, with underdeveloped technique, and galloping ADHD" and "he's got a raging fire of blazing ambition, extreme stubborn hyperfocus, and the ability to sightread and memorize like nobody's business". He can confidently memorize pieces 15-20 minutes long the first time he sees the music.

Teacher A always tipped over into seeing the second bit but not the first, and put things in front of him that fed the ambition instead of the technique, while treating him like an organ scholar. I had to constantly run behind attempting to shore up the technique, musical understanding etc.

Teacher B, thankfully, is much more like his cello teacher: has his head screwed on about happy future musicians with solid understanding and technique, being infinitely more desirable than pressured, unhappy child musicians. So now I can step back a bit and let them get on with it and be less overinvolved.

@DitheringMusicParent I think parents have to accept a few things around very young musicians and theory: (a) with a few exceptions most of them are averse to the idea. (b) the ABRSM G5 theory is out of date, dry and boring. (c) with young ones I have found theory is best tackled in a short block(s) if you need to heavy lift them through the exam. (d) if they pass it, it is unlikely to have any great benefit to any future musical plans they have (again I am sure with some exceptions) because they have forgotten what they have crammed by about 3 weeks later. (e) if they are too little for it you have to decide as a parent whether to go through the misery of making them do it anyway, or whether you shrug, accept that, revisit it when they are a bit older and recognise that despite the fever that can develop around talented little ones, it actually doesn't matter.

Two of mine did their G5 theory at 10 because of imminent G6 exams. I definitely would not have wanted to tackle it with them any younger than that. With both of them they were mature enough by then that we talked about it and discussed how much it really mattered. They both chose to give it a go because they had their own ambitions around their practical exams. I think that it was important that they had made the decision themselves and were therefore willing to put the effort in. The elder dropped in, did a short online course, didn't find it too hard and passed about a week later (she is very good at picking up concepts in subjects like maths). The younger one processes things completely differently, had to do two courses and work much harder but did get there.

I found having to do the exams at that age counter productive because it put them off theory. Funnily enough my eldest developed the greatest aversion despite finding it relatively straightforward. My younger one, because she had done more of it, did get some more secure understanding and sense of pride in grasping bits of it.

Overall it is a shame because theory, when learned alongside the playing they enjoy, is actually interesting and valuable. My eldest is now 14 and the grasp she has of theory has come about in more recent years through discussing the concepts in an applied way with her teacher as she learns repertoire.

My youngest is 9. We will come upon the G5 theory question in the next year. When we do we will have the same conversation about whether it is something he wants to do. At the moment he would not want to do it and I would not want to make him. I probably could, with bribery and coercion, but I suspect we would both be miserable. The sudden cognitive leaps they take at that age (9-10, 10-11, 11-12 etc) are huge. In a year's time we might be in a different place but we might not. But he hands down loves his playing and that is great.

My reading of your message is that you don't actually think your son is ready to learn theory at that level and, if that is the case, that's fine. He can still love his playing and develop as a musician. It won't hold him back in the future. He just won't have a piece of paper at 9 and will either have to hold off ABRSM exams or carry on with Trinity. No music school in the future would give a hoot about that. My younger daughter was at a JD when we went through the G5 process. If I had said to them that actually I thought she wasn't ready, they really wouldn't have cared. They aren't fussed about exam grades. They are much more bothered about the damage that can come about from pushing children when it is counter productive and making happy future musicians unhappy child musicians. And you may well find that your son, at 10 or 11, is in a completely different place.

I think music leads to choices about what sort of parent you want to be. There are other JD parents who, I am sure, would take a different approach and have done what it takes and got their child through G5 theory at 7 to have them at G8 by 8. I just think that's a bit nuts and sounds deeply un-fun for everyone. For me music is about enjoyment, the immense valuable lessons about teamwork, resilience and life it teaches and the sheer pleasure of being part of something so fabulous.

I do think that it is important not to get too swept up in the future with little ones and music, however talented. They are their own people. If it is a passion he will find his way with the support you are giving him. And he might grow up to be a great doctor or save the world doing something else. None of mine want to be musicians and if they said they did, I would want them do go into that tough career with their eyes open, because they love it and because it is a positive choice made by them as adults, not made for them as children by the adults around them.

And the obvious response to that is: 10 yo friend is obviously doing too few pieces, but DS9 is obviously doing far too many, at least on organ!

Thankfully the new teacher is working mainly on technique so the difficulty and length of the pieces has dropped massively, and e.g. there's no longer the expectation that if he learns one movement of piece that he'll automatically need to learn the rest as well (two Bach Trio sonatas, three big Preludes and Fugues, Mendelssohn Op 65 No 3, all last year... taking Grade 5-6 single movements and making him learn the rest of a 15 minute sonata that is on diploma lists, at age 8-9)

Thanks @Compsearch - yes we have the same here - I try not to say it too often!

I think my perspective on exams is generally that they're unnecessary (until the need for qualifications comes up) if the kid is progressing appropriately and being taught appropriately. We had been doing them because I really didn't feel qualified to teach everything all the time without reference to something external, and Teacher A wasn't doing much teaching.

In countries where music is dominated by an achievement-focused mindset, and seen as one of a list of accomplishments that must be ticked off, merely an addition to the child's CV, exams can often become the sole focus, and that's really counterproductive. Here, high level players are often extremely boring and clueless about broad context and style, because as kids they've been shoved from one extracurricular exam to the next and never really listened.

DS has a 10 year old friend who only ever learns exam material each year, i.e. 3 pieces each for cello and piano, plus the grade level scales and exercises. Every year she gets high-ish marks in the exams and wins the music excellence prize at her school. She is regarded by many in the school as a musical prodigy. At 6 pieces a year played very confidently and loudly, she's got time to make sure the pieces sound pretty good. It is an addition to her CV (along with ballet, tennis, Kumon maths tutoring...): she isn't actually interested beyond exam results and the school prize.

DS has been learning more like 6 pieces a week on organ for quite a while (repertoire, choir accompanying, hymns), and each year on cello generally completes a Suzuki book or more, most of the pieces for whatever grade syllabus, plus plenty of other pieces in eg the Editio Musica Budapest books, real repertoire, chamber music parts, plus two orchestras a week at about 10 pieces a term each. We also go to a lot of concerts and listen to alllllllllll the recordings so he understands style and interpretation. Which is why he doesn't have time to learn theory!

@DitheringMusicParent I don’t think you need to worry - your DS is already in a completely different position than you were. DH and I were both late starters from non musical families and I do often find myself telling DS when he’s moaning about practice how lucky he is as no one ever helped me…unsurprisingly doesnt go down so well ha.

Im sure by the time your DS has matured enough to be interested and up for the exam, the preparation required will be minimal as he’ll know most of it already. He’ll be in his late teens before he needs exams for anything (if at all). My friend is principal oboe in one of the London orchestras and doesn’t have grade 8 oboe.

@herbaceous - yes hugely competitive. One of the kids in the year above is off to do it from dd’s school. He’s a brilliant pianist - also an academic scholar. Dd isn’t really sure she stands a chance but she would love it.

Thanks all for this perspective.We can leave it for a bit! Generally exams here are because schools don’t do anything useful for music at all, most don’t even offer it as a subject, and if DS remains homeschooled he can’t do eg International GCSE or A-level music, so he’s going to need to show he can do stuff via exams

However, I totally agree about him being very young and not all the exams being essential! Enjoying playing is far more useful.

It’s a relief to hear others also find Gr5 theory a bit dry. DS loves looking at things like “Here’s the motif upside down and half speed” “Here it is again in A minor” and working out which voice should be prominent at any time etc so he’s taking in the theory that he’s going to find useful later on.

And yes, later on he might decide engineering is what he’d prefer, and that would be fine. It would be an easier career than music. I’m just making sure that if he wants to do music, which is currently his all-consuming passion, he has a chance to do it seriously. I’d have given anything to do music at uni and beyond but I started way too late (12, 14) and had no idea how to practise and hardly practised at all, so noone ever thought I was any good, in a high school full of multi-instrumentalists who’d all started age 3 (Suzuki was very big back then). Of my music class one became a violinist, one a piano teacher, and everyone else stopped playing except me. But I never got to a level that was remotely satisfying to listen to.

We didn’t know about the RNCM joint course until we got there! They played it down, as it's so competitive and for just a very few students each year, but it would be amazing!

@herbaceous you seem to have done the work so we don’t have to- dd is failing to get to any open days (she has had glandular fever to be fair) but her choices are basically Cambridge, Durham, Manchester joint course and then some conservatoires.

your summing up of the different options is admirable! she’d be lucky to get of them..

I think 9 is very young for grade 5 music theory @DitheringMusicParent My 13-year-old took it this year and he found it boring, difficult and frustrating. I don’t think he could have managed it when he was 9. One thing to consider is that your DS only needs to pass the exam so you could view it as something he just needs in order to access the higher practical grades and not go chasing high marks. The online multiple choice format really helps, for example in the musical expressions section, you’re given a choice of four answers so, as long as you have a reasonable grasp of the terms, you have a very good chance of making an educated guess. My DS was asked what “avec sourdines” meant in his exam which was a bit of a head scratcher.

Some universities want grade 8 for the performance part of the degree, I believe.

Talking of which, we've been doing some open days. Durham - amazing yet mildly shambolic department, lots going on in cosy sort of way, amazing drama, choral scholarship opportunities in cathedral. Manchester - amazing in a totally different way, much better facilities, industry contacts, RNCM dual pathway, generally groovy city with loads going on.

Not helpful really.

We're going to Cambridge on Thursday, to confuse ourselves further.

@DitheringMusicParent have you considered medication for ADHD for your DS? That could help with concentration in general, not just for music theory.

Re. theory, there are two separate things - 1) learning theory for better understanding of music and 2) sitting exams. I don't think formal teaching is necessary for ABRSM grade 5, they seem to absorb enough knowledge through instrumental lessons. My DD is not good at theory and not spending hours at the instrument like your DS, but she did the exam with no problem and no other prep but a few days on ABRSM Theory app. I'm pretty sure your DS has enough knowledge to do this too. If he cannot concentrate for the exam, that's another story, but then again medication could help with that. DD spent about 40 minutes on the whole test, just to give you an idea of how long he would need to concentrate for.

Exams aside, learning the theory is very useful of course but it can come later. Your DS may change a lot when he gets older.

Another question is why do you think you need to follow any graded exam pathways, including on the instrument? Grades are not mandatory for any admissions in the UK (is it different in the US?), it's the auditions that matter, not grade certificates. If your DS is obsessed with music, he will be working far beyond any grades or diplomas by 18 anyway. He could easily prepare grade or diplomas pieces just before the exam when he's older if you still want the certificates. DD skipped a lot of grades and has always been playing a lot of non graded pieces, depending on the technical skills she needs to develop or particular rep she likes and persuades her teachers to teach her.

Congrats @achangeofnameisasgoodasarest , an admirable achievement and lots of fun ahead with the brass band! 😁

So sorry to hear organ teacher A is being weird dithering. How disappointing. Music people are 99% lovely and supportive to students, even if not theirs, specially if theirs and moving on.

I agree with horsey, 9 is very young to do theory for anyone. Even a couple more years maturity is likely to help if it's not presently urgent. If you have time and funds finding a theory teacher and working through some stuff wouldn't do any harm. But honestly, all that playing time and practical lessons the patterns of theory ARE going in. The later you leave it the easier it will be.

Agree withhorseymum, the ABRSM theory is very dry and not at all inspiring for a child of that age. If he can't simply enjoy his music at that age, then when can he? I know it's difficult, but please try not to fast forward to various milestones. He clearly has an aptitude and a passion, and I wouldn't mess with that. The Trinity pathway is very well regarded. The repertoire lists are often more extensive and interesting. I find many of my young musicians have been more suited to this route and have thrived and are enjoying music careers. It's worth pointing out also that many started on one instrument and ended up developing a passion for a totally different instrument. I see music as something expressed through the instrument. The technical mastery of one instrument can extend to another instrument surprisingly quickly - but the phrasing, the calibration of your intonation, your skill at playing alongside other melody lines - this is what you are developing and the instrument is just your tool.

Separately and arguably more importantly, if he has AuDHD, then I highly recommend that you get a referral through the GP to see a psychiatrist who can assess him, not only because this is what is needed to apply for accommodations (a paediatrician assessment is not accepted), but also because there are lots of fantastic resources and strategies to help neurodivergent children to tap into their own way of learning - exercise for example, is highly effective.

Thanks @horseymum yes I agree that’s a good strategy. We tried to pick 2 for NCO audition but he got sick of them which is why we’ve got 5 that are almost ready atm and none that (in my opinion!) are actually done. He has lots of the scales to learn and I’m sure sight reading will need a lot of work so there is still plenty to do.

@DitheringMusicParent this really stood out to me - However, he really needs to get going on the theory exams since he'll actually need to know the theory if he wants to go and do music at uni and be an organ scholar - he’s only 9! He might not even want to be an organ scholar at 18 and there’s pretty much nothing you can do at this age to rule that in or out. Great that the new teacher is going well - presumably they can teach him the theory he needs as part of his lessons? And then the actual exams can wait til he’s a bit more mature. I’m taking that approach with my 8yo anyway - haven’t done anything formal yet but he’s picking up loads from choir and violin. He’s NT but not a bookish child at all - would totally hate having to sit down with a theory book.

@DitheringMusicParent I don't know many 9 year olds who could pass grade 5 theory. Mine hadn't even started the instrument she's at conservatoire with at that age and she's doing fine! Clearly some must do but maybe it's just more stress than you need at the moment. Would continuing with trinity work just now until he has some more strategies for focusing ( not easy I appreciate) and wants to do it himself? Have you tried the abrsm app for the iPad as it might be more fun if it is gameified? Other child refused to do theory until she wanted to, so just stuck with trinity until teacher suggested grade 8 should be abrsm as that's what their JD does. Other option is continue playing whatever music suits and not worry about exams until grade 8, by which time he might have decided himself to do the theory.

@Compsearch I think the trick is not to work on three pieces only for months on end. If they are really at that level they can pick the pieces, learn them and do most of the work then if you're brave can leave them ticking over and keep revisiting but not bashing away constantly. Then nearer the time they can be re-polished. Depends what works for your child. My youngest learnt a grade five piece two weeks before the exam because her teacher realised it was the wrong study and it was no problem because she'd been playing so much music around and above the level for ages. Different case for piano though I guess.

Has anyone on here had a child with autism/ ADHD/ visual processing issues who is great at passing practical music exams, but is a total space cadet terrible at staying on task with independent written work?

If you did, did you ever get them to pass Grade 5 theory?

DS 9 is doing Grade 6 Trinity organ and cello this year. He's kind of stuck doing Trinity at the moment, despite the ABRSM syllabus being better for organ, because he just doesn't have the executive function skills to stay on task in ABRSM theory exams.

However, he really needs to get going on the theory exams since he'll actually need to know the theory if he wants to go and do music at uni and be an organ scholar.

I think we need (1) someone to actually teach him theory properly, as I'm too tired and overstretched and DS spends so many hours playing music per day he has no brain space left to learn theory (someone else will have to steal a couple of practice hours per week to do theory, since he won't do it for me), (2) supporting evidence from a paediatrician saying DS is AuDHD with visual processing issues and severe executive function issues, then the easy bit, (3) ABRSM theory special exam conditions with pen and paper, extra time and a prompter. I'm tired just thinking it through. The little ABRSM red theory book is sitting there on the shelf looking piously neglected...

Update on the organ teacher situation: DS has stayed with the better teacher (B) and is making massive progress, but the first teacher (A) is refusing to discuss anything at all, including whether DS is allowed to continue to play at her church/ sing in her choir. He's not been given anything new to do in a service since the Teacher A went on sabbatical (has just played in a few services, committments that she'd organised prior to leaving). She's been back from sabbatical for a while and has just stayed silent (choir holidays so she hasn't been around). It's getting slightly ridiculous, so it looks like he'll have to leave her church, but the teaching from Teacher B is great at least.

Also @achangeofnameisasgoodasarest i think a teacher would be a good idea? Sounds like you’ve done great so far and will be learning through the band, but will be quicker progress with a teacher.

@achangeofnameisasgoodasarest it’s a great choice! Though yes a little unwieldy. I started on tenor horn which is similarly gentle and cuddly!

thank you @northerngoldilocks i just had a look and there are some October sessions near Moorgate which would be perfect so will prob book in for that when it opens - very small booking window!

@Londonmummy66 I have a band - I'm in the baby six o clock bit of the local brass band - which is how I acquired a euph in the first place. Am hoping now I have my grade 3 I might be allowed to stay for a bit of the next stage up as that is a 'grade 3 plus ensemble"

I picked the euphonium because I googled 'which is the easiest brass instrument to get a sound out of' and this is what I got. Sadly I did not google 'how large is a euphonium'. I am a fool as I have to take it on a train.

Wondering if I might need a teacher for the next bit, rather than just the half hour group class.