When DC just aren't talented at....anything

If OP's DD1 has SEN issues then so do I (I don't, to my knowledge). Surely it's normal not to be very good at some things. I always find it odd the idea that children need to be "achieving", well, anything, but especially trophies in hobbies that most adults don't do and never think about.

It sounds like your children have some SEN issues. Lots of children don't have talents or don't find something they are passionate about and drop out of extra curricu;ar stuff, but it sounds like for yours they- esp DD1 they are struggling to achieve anything.

If they're kind and caring how about something animal centred?

Or you say their academic work is great how about a book group/writing class?

Also what about creative stuff (you should go to this with them) - a one day pottery course, making things/crochet/knitting/painting/bauble making etc

Some children love quiet, focused activities like making things - try this ?

Some people just don't make friends easily. It doesn't mean they don't still enjoy being on the periphery socially and getting some interaction there. Just because your daughter hasn't made firm friends, doesn't mean she isn't still getting something out of it.

The medals thing is so silly, the only advice there is to get over it. Not everyone is a competitive type who values medals, plenty of people just enjoy participating and trying to be a little bit better than they were yesterday. And the adult world doesn't give a shit about teenage medals unless you continue to excel in adulthood, which most people don't.

Extra curriculars and hobbies are not supposed to be undertaken for the sole purpose of excelling to win trophies, medals, and certificates.

Are you particularly talented OP? What is it you excel in, that you have won trophies for? Or perhaps the apple doesn't fall far from the tree?

You're putting an awful lot of pressure on these kids to find a talent and excel at it. Why can't they do it just to enjoy it, enjoy life, and progress at their own pace, rather than for a particular outcome?

Mine was horse riding. I never stuck at anything else. I found horse riding as a young teenager (or, more the case that's when my parents could afford the weekly lessons). I was disliked and bullied by my original instructors, and they were harsh and unfair to me. I was made to feel I was utterly crap at it and just 'couldn't get it'. I worked at the yard to earn extra lessons for months, and only ever received one lesson in return. I was bullied and ostracised by the other kids, as well as the adults running the yard. As a result my lessons were repetitive and I was only given the chance to even jump, when I eventually moved to a different school. I never competed firstly because I never had a horse, and secondly wouldn't have had the confidence to anyway. Eventually I fell out of it, and always missed it and longed to return to it.

After a ten year break I very anxiously went for a lesson at a local school in a completely different area, from the strong encouragement of my other half. I told the instructor it'd been quite a while since I'd been riding. When she asked, and I told her it had been ten years since I'd even touched a horse, she genuinely couldn't believe it. She actually stopped another instructor who was in the middle of teaching, to show them my riding, exclaiming 'This woman hasn't been riding in 10 years, can you believe it?!'. She told me I had a lovely seat, and was a better rider than some of the folks who had been riding with them for years. I quickly went on to find a share horse and had the time of my life with it.

The point I'm making is, some of us just don't fit in, either with other kids, or adults, as children. We are unnoticed. But when you give a child a hobby, you often set them for life with finding enjoyment, joy and pleasure with a skill and a passion, for life. It's so not about the trophies and progression marked on paper. Those instructors pushing me extra hard because of blatant dislike, actually made me such a good rider I could pop on a horse after 10 years away, ride well, and even jump, like I'd only been away for months. There are many who show, win ribbons and compete who couldn't (and haven't) been able to do the same after even a year or two away.

I'm really grateful that on top of the bullying from others, my parents weren't expecting me to 'achieve' something other than enjoyment and simply gave me something to find some joy in, with no other expectations to 'perform'. That opportunity really gave me something for life.

Please rethink your attitude to your kids. You can attempt to hide it all you want. Your disappointment in them will not go unnoticed by them.

My DD is autistic, similar age, she had a really bad year in year 6 socially and started to find the classroom environment.overwhelming. She does very well at school as does her autistic brother, doesnt mean there isnt somethingelse going on. Social interactions tend to get more complex around puberty and some ND kids can't keep up, can't keep faking the skills and masking. It's not an unusual age for things to fall apart of ND kids.

Does her school have any lunchtime or after school clubs? Does she have a main/home room type teacher you can speak to to see if there's anything school can do to support her making some friends? Group sports can have a social aspect even if she doesn't make friends. I think it can help a bit to be still having those interactions.

Happiness is a very underrated achievement. Stop being overbearing.

Stop forcing her to be someone she's not!!

Did you give her a phone too soon? Once kids get one, it's game over.

Honestly @Pullinghair my DD was very much like this. She actually had a horrid time at school and you could easily count her friends on one hand. Once she got up college it was totally different. I only asked her yesterday how come she has 1000 friends. She’s totally changed from how she was at school but it did take until she was18 sadly.

I was terrible at sport growing up. I hated it and I was awful. Couldn't swim particularly well, couldn't run, couldn't do team sports as bad hand eye coordination, not flexible couldnt do ballet or gymnastics. The works. I was a bookworm and all I ever wanted to do was read.

It took me until my 40s to find fitness again. Now I run, not very fast but I do half marathons once or twice a year. I go to the gym and I'm pretty decent at lifting weights but not amazing. Why I do it is for ME, for my health and longevity. And it took me years to understand that the only person to beat is me. So I happily trot along in a half now being overtaken by all and sundry.

Some folks, me included, were never made for sports and will never be "good". Im sure this is true for other activities. So drop these things for DD and just do other stuff. Family bike ride? Go to the cinema? Crafting? Play board games?
Encourage her to do things with you. Encourage friendships without them needing to be based on an actual activity. And if they do enjoy the activity then that's good enough. Don't worry too much

Perhaps ask yourself why it matters - what exactly do you feel like you're not achieving? Why do medals and certificates matter - and to who?

As a parent, you need to set aside your own ego; this isn't about you.

What strikes me though is that all of those clubs are very physical. Can your DD go to any clubs which are more relaxed and social? Does she like crafts - a craft club could be an option. Or how about volunteering? Helping others can be really good for your self-esteem.

Both my DC are autistic. My DD vanishes in large groups, especially with other girls. She struggles to fit in and find common ground and gets a bit overwhelmed by the dynamics of larger groups. But put her in small groups of people who she's had time to get to know and she thrives. Interestingly, she tends to get on very well with boys because I think their social structure is different, and there's less hierarchy in general conversation. She enjoys being with girls but often finds herself excluded or struggling with the topics of conversation.

I'm not suggesting that your DD is necessarily autistic (although she might be...), but those things might help her too.

Also re swimming, have you spent a lot of time in the pool as a family, not on actual lessons? I struggled to learn to drive with the instructor and just used my lessons to learn what I needed to do to pass the test. Where I actually learnt to drive was hours and hours on the road with my dad, just driving around, no pressure. Put in a situation where demands are being placed on me and I'm expected to learn, I often fail. I'm autistic too, btw.

Neither of my DC are outstanding at anything that society values, and still struggle with things that others their age find easy. But I think my two absolutely fucking rock, I'm so proud of them every day. I honestly can't fathom feeling disappointed about a lack of medals. Your girls sound as if they've shown fantastic resilience to keep trying, an enviable enthusiasm for trying different subjects, and real persistence in the face of continuing difficulties. They sound amazing!

I think you've pulled her out of things too quickly tbh. Swimming is a really slow burner - I know loads of kids who went to lessons all through primary. Violin takes ages too - if she was happy going why stop her? Progress isn't a straight line you can have nothing for ages then things suddenly click and they get it.
Also comparison is the thief of joy - why are you obsessed with them being the best? Are you the best at things? Did you let her choose what classes she did or did you just decide for her?
You're not role modelling team player supportive vibes so no wonder she has a lack of confidence- she's probably either scared of people expecting them to be like you or she'll be putting people down like you do with her.
Time to rebuild her confidence and tell her how proud you are of her for being a kind caring person who's willing to give things a go, and once she's relaxed and happy again she'll attract friendships.

Children who do well in activities are often not the most talented. They are the ones who put in the most time and effort, and whose parents put in the most money.

I danced when I was a child, and I have now been a dance mum for many years. Neither myself nor my daughter would ever have been the most naturally talented in any given group. But through taking multiple classes per week, looking for performance opportunities, etc, you can improve and can get to a pretty high level. A kid who takes one recreational class per week will never get to that level, even if they do have a considerable degree of natural talent.

Also, some people have a competitive nature whereas others do not. I do, I always had to try the hardest and be the best. But DD is not competitive at all, she is happy when her team wins or when she gets a high exam mark, but she doesn’t care that much in the scheme of things. It sounds like your kids also don’t have a competitive nature and are quite happy to just participate, they don’t need to be the best.

It sounds like you have exposed your children to a range of activities rather than having them specialise in just one. And maybe that is for the best! It gives them a chance to find out what they enjoy. The vast majority of people aren’t going to become professionals in their chosen activity even if they are very talented and if they progress to a high level.

My now adult children were introduced to a lot of stuff when they were kids. It was nothing to do with medals/status etc (although that would've been great) it was predominantly about the camaraderie of being and sharing in a group/team.

My DS tried so many things, I was waiting for him to say to me "mum
I really enjoyed that" OR watching him enjoy it OR him looking forward to going to it. Sadly I never got what I was looking for. He's never had a hobby he enjoys, and that was the only thing I wanted from it for him. He is an adult (27) and has no hobbies or interests at all😔. Be glad your DC are happy to go.

But I do also understand how you feel too.

Have you looked at dyspraxia? My eldest is 7 and can't swim after 2.5 years of bank breaking lessons. She also can't cycle yet. I'm getting her assessed because it's important to know - is it worth you considering?

Some kids just aren't into sport/music etc and tbh there aren't loads of extra curricular options outside that. She'll find her thing.

12 is a crap age for friends. It will shake out.

You're putting two issues together here.

Most children who move schools have trouble making friends - they are the newbie and the friendship groups are already established. Outside activities can help but they need to be stuff like guides or cubs where socialisation is part of the point.

Some extra curriculars aren't the sort of thing where you make friends. Swimming being an obvious example.

Most children who excel at something have parents who are helping them practice. They might be taking them swimming every weekend, or doing piano practice with them every day. If you want a child who excels you need to put in the hard graft.

The Case Against Competition
By Alfie Kohn

‘Competition is to self-esteem as sugar is to teeth. Most people lose in most competitive encounters, and it’s obvious why that causes self-doubt. But even winning doesn’t build character; it just lets a child gloat temporarily. Studies have shown that feelings of self-worth become dependent on external sources of evaluation as a result of competition: Your value is defined by what you’ve done. Worse — you’re a good person in proportion to the number of people you’ve beaten.’

It doesn’t matter!

They sound happy and have had lots of experiences. With kindness, pls be careful as it reads like the children are your trophies and the need for medals etc is what it’s all about for you. I’d be worried it might come across to the kids also.

t’s so destructive to be a child who isn’t getting medals and for it to be an issue. My sister was an excellent swimmer, gymnast and figure skater. She got so much praise. I enjoyed going to those classes but I was mediocre and never got medals. Hearing my mum talk about it with my sister was a knife through my heart. It felt like a judgement of me as a person. Consequently, I’ve never focused on that with my kids. My daughter returned to dance as a teenager after years away. She opted for the class where you don’t work through exams but just go for the love of dancing and to gain new experiences.

For me, swimming was the one thing they had to stick at, not for medals but for the fact it might save their lives one day. You are giving the girls lots of life experiences and that’s a wonderful thing. Pls be careful not to take the fun out of it for them by putting any pressure on.

I will add, I used to work with a woman who was a total jobsworth, always wanting to be the best at work and seeking lots of praise at the detriment of others. Bit of a pain in the arse. I went to her house one day at lunchtime and she not only had her medals displayed everywhere for her hobby but at the top of the stairs, outside the loo she had her degree and higher education certificates framed for all to see. It really made me laugh. Made me wonder about her childhood.

I never did anything competitive outside school but did dance where you progress from grade to grade. I'm glad my parents didn't think in terms of competing with others, or that I had to have a talent, and just enjoying it.

I agree with this. It's expensive in the short term, but way better value for money than years of group lessons!

Most kids will not be getting awards or trophies in their extracurriculars but you should still encourage it for their personal development and try to be unbothered about their lack of achievements.

How were you yourself at all these things growing up? How was your dh? Unfortunately most of us are just average so shouldn't be surprised with our average kids. My dh was exceptionally good at sport growing up, made all the teams, captain, medals etc but it hasn't made him any happier than me who was just average. I still play sport in my 60s and enjoy it while he has long given up as once the competitive edge went he lost interest. None of our dc were exceptional but they all play sport well into adulthood..mainly for fun and fitness.
Just accept your dd exactly as she is. As she enters teens maybe a youth group with no competitive element would suit her and hopefully she will make friends in Secondary where she will have more variety.

I think if you are looking for friendship groups for dd I think this is where you have to step in and make friends with other mums, who have dc of similar age and also other mums with older and younger dc.

I do think that when they get to senior school, that is when a lot of children either stop going to activities or ramp up the practice because they have their eye on incorporating their activity into their career or are working on competitions

I think leaving her to figures things out on her own is a way to watch her and see what sort of stuff she does enjoy..

I would also look around at what weekend job she can do either this year or next)
I think earning her own money will boost her self esteem and confidence.

Bit out there but could she have ADHD. If she has so much going on in her brain it could be the reason she has little interest in extra activities

I think you should take the pressure off your daughters, and yourself, to find something to be good at, to boost their self-confidence so they can make friends. They need to be able to make friends with kids who will accept them for who they are, and probably this will be quiter kids, so they're not going to be part of the "popular group", and you need to accept this for them. Your DD1 isn't likely to have a friendship similar to the outgoing confident girls in primary school, and you need to accept this.

I'm surprised that Guides isn't working out well for DD1 - it's usually focused on friendship, and there's such an array of activities that she should find something she enjoys. Maybe talk to the group leader about your concerns, and she can keep an eye on your DD, and encourage her to get involved.

I don't think you should keep asking them if they'd like to take up new hobbies - they can probably tell that you'd like them to say yes, so they'll feel they've dissapointed you by saying no

To get your younger DD swimming, I think you should be going swimming with her once a week, so she can practice and get more at ease in the water, rather than leaving it all to professional swimming teachers.