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The Dark Side of Ballet Schools - Panorama investigation

140 replies

taxi4ballet · 11/09/2023 16:17

Panorama programme on BBC1 this evening at 8pm, also available on i-player. An investigation into eating disorders and mental health issues suffered by young dancers in full-time ballet training, including the Royal Ballet School.

This really is required watching for anyone whose dc is interested in becoming a professional dancer - and not just ballet either. This sort of thing happens in other performing arts establishments too, although those are not covered by this programme.

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taxi4ballet · 14/09/2023 18:48

I forgot - there is a regulatory body which used to be called CDET (council for dance education & training) which is now known as The Council for Dance, Drama and Musical Theatre. They say they offer accreditation to schools, but I don't know what that entails, or how much real power they have, if any.

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taxi4ballet · 14/09/2023 18:43

You're right @mrsmcvv and on the whole it is better to wait until after GCSE's. It isn't always an easy decision though, as many dancers don't have access to enough advanced-level training locally.

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mrsmcvv · 14/09/2023 15:00

Name changed as I'm partly quoting and want to remain anonymous.

A couple of years ago DS's dance teacher (ex professional who attended boarding school) said these vocational dance schools, though she was speaking of RB, are spoilt for choice when auditioning at 10/11, and the real difficulty is when they reach 16 having been through puberty and their bodies have changed, so why audition for full time training at 10/11.

An interesting point that has been made is that there is no regulatory body for ballet as there is for sports. Yes the boarding schools will be checked by Ofsted and there are various dance boards but that's not the same. Though I once reported some mentally and emotionally abusive behaviour in a local school to one of the dance boards (IDTA) and didn't even receive a response, so I wouldn't say that was fit for purpose.

I hope something changes now after the Panorama debate.

taxi4ballet · 14/09/2023 13:52

Comefromaway · 14/09/2023 13:14

The problem with Tring is that they have less funding available than most of the other schools so unless you can afford to pay fees it isn't an option for many.

There is more at 16+ when they switch from MDS to Dada funding.

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taxi4ballet · 14/09/2023 13:50

WandaWonder · 14/09/2023 12:45

How many parents are the ones pushing the kids more than the kids want it?

There are a lot, but it doesn't matter how hard you push, if your child isn't what the schools are looking for, they won't get in.
To give you an idea of how hard it is, well over a thousand talented 10-year-old girls audition for the Royal Ballet School every year, and they accept around twelve into Y7.

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Comefromaway · 14/09/2023 13:14

The problem with Tring is that they have less funding available than most of the other schools so unless you can afford to pay fees it isn't an option for many.

TedLassoIsMySpiritAnimal · 14/09/2023 13:12

balloni · 14/09/2023 12:49

I will certainly be researching more. Thank you, we hadn’t considered or looked at Rambert so will look into that also.

Though I think I would have doubled checked about BT first as they’re not allowed to be discussed at all in some other places as you probably know (along with Ballet West) so I did wonder why not.

Indeed. As Comefromaway says, if a business won’t allow any negative posts to be made about it without threatening legal action, I would wonder what they might be hiding.

Definitely look at Rambert, as well as Tring Park now that the former director of dance has gone, especially if your child is at all academic.

Comefromaway · 14/09/2023 13:01

Though I think I would have doubled checked about BT first as they’re not allowed to be discussed at all in some other places as you probably know (along with Ballet West) so I did wonder why not.

They have a tendency to threaten legal action if anyone makes any post that is even slightly critical. Make of that what you will.

Comefromaway · 14/09/2023 13:00

WandaWonder · 14/09/2023 12:45

How many parents are the ones pushing the kids more than the kids want it?

Very, very very few at vocational level. Pushy parents are much more likely to be found in local dance schools, especially those who do comps. As a parent you are pretty much kept out of the vocational school selection process and once they are in held very much at arms length. I think I only met 2 children out of hundreds who had been pushed into it by a parent. They tend to only select children who really, really want it.

My attitude to dd was, well, OK we will let you try but if at any time you feel it isn't working out, tell us and that's OK, it won't be seen as a failure. Our only stipulation was no changing schools between year 10-12 because of GCSE's.

balloni · 14/09/2023 12:53

taxi4ballet · 13/09/2023 14:06

@balloni I think I know the ballet company you are thinking of regarding height limit for female dancers. I asked someone in the know, and apparently it was because at the time of inviting auditionees, their existing male dancers were not particularly tall, so that was what was causing the requirement for shorter female dancers. When en pointe, it adds several inches to the woman's height, and makes partnering more difficult. At least that company is not quite so rigid in its approach when it comes to aesthetic line and natural female curves.

Well that’s reassuring to know. I hadn’t looked to see what the current requirements were.

balloni · 14/09/2023 12:49

TedLassoIsMySpiritAnimal · 13/09/2023 14:06

Personal opinion; if it were me, I would steer well clear. Rambert School, on the other hand, has an excellent reputation for student care.

I will certainly be researching more. Thank you, we hadn’t considered or looked at Rambert so will look into that also.

Though I think I would have doubled checked about BT first as they’re not allowed to be discussed at all in some other places as you probably know (along with Ballet West) so I did wonder why not.

WandaWonder · 14/09/2023 12:45

How many parents are the ones pushing the kids more than the kids want it?

WandaWonder · 14/09/2023 12:44

BriansGotHisWinkyOutAgain · 11/09/2023 16:29

I'm really surprised at the 'shock horror' reporting, I thought it was common knowledge that this happened

Same

balloni · 14/09/2023 12:41

user9630721458 · 13/09/2023 19:45

@bellac11 I suppose ballet is about making shapes with the body. and curves 'spoil' the shapes.
Dancers are expected to ignore pain and discomfort and push on through. Many will develop injuries or give up, Gelsey Kirkland wrote about taking drugs to manage.
Balanchine made the lean look popular. it is said. One could also see it as another form of female oppression - like the corset. Male dancers suffer too, but some men always have under the patriarchy,

Was it her autobiography you read? A beautiful, talented dancer but developed an ED and had plastic surgery too, if I recall correctly.

SilverGlitterBaubles · 14/09/2023 07:57

It is not just ballet, the dance schools, insane world of dance competitions and the current trend for young dancers to be brand ambassadors and insta influencers needs to change. Not all of it is bad but some of it is really not healthy. Parents are advocates for their children first and foremost. They need to look at these opportunities and decide who really benefits here, is this what my child needs and not be blinded and sucked into the whole dance/ stage mom world.

user9630721458 · 13/09/2023 20:42

@DewinDwl I don't know much about flamenco, but it sounds like a healthier attitude. Once saw some dancers with Paco Pena, though, and they radiated power and confidence and were certainly not waifs!

DewinDwl · 13/09/2023 20:29

user9630721458 · 13/09/2023 20:06

Ballet has a particular aesthetic as well, paralleling white, western ideas of beauty. Other world dance forms don't require dancers to be so thin.

Interesting point. In flamenco looks and size have zero importance, so long as you dance on the beat and convey feeling.

aspirationalflamingo · 13/09/2023 20:28

Isn't the problem ballet itself?

SilverGlitterBaubles · 13/09/2023 20:09

Agreed the program was shocking and so very sad but it is not surprising to anyone who knows anything about this world.

As a parent I would have very serious reservations about sending my child to one of these schools. I understand the need to provide opportunity if they have a talent but sending 11 year olds to board in this environment where an unnatural amount of perfection is required is just too high a risk.

user9630721458 · 13/09/2023 20:06

Ballet has a particular aesthetic as well, paralleling white, western ideas of beauty. Other world dance forms don't require dancers to be so thin.

user9630721458 · 13/09/2023 19:45

@bellac11 I suppose ballet is about making shapes with the body. and curves 'spoil' the shapes.
Dancers are expected to ignore pain and discomfort and push on through. Many will develop injuries or give up, Gelsey Kirkland wrote about taking drugs to manage.
Balanchine made the lean look popular. it is said. One could also see it as another form of female oppression - like the corset. Male dancers suffer too, but some men always have under the patriarchy,

taxi4ballet · 13/09/2023 19:34

@bellac11 If you Google 'what is classical line in ballet' and then choose 'images', it will show plenty of examples of what it looks like. As for who invented it, nobody did. The human eye possibly, as the proportions and graceful shapes created by the dancers' bodies appear pleasing to look at. You might also like to search for 'golden ratio in the human body'. which goes some way to explaining why human brains find certain shapes and proportions appealing.

Some choreographers and artistic directors of ballet companies (who employ the dancers) have a tendency to prefer the adolescent female form over the adult one. I think someone mentions the name 'Balanchine' upthread. He was one who favoured tall slim dancers. Overly muscular thighs or normal-sized boobs affect the 'line'.

None of that, of course, could in any way excuse the mistreatment of children, all of whom have already been pre-selected from among thousands as they have the right 'look' already. Thing is though, children in full-time ballet training grow and change shape just the same as everybody else. Some of them - well it all came out in the programme.

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bellac11 · 13/09/2023 19:15

balloni · 13/09/2023 10:22

The perfect 'line' really is behind the slim aesthetic in ballet.

So the 'look' takes priority?

But then how do they expect someone to be able to perform so rigously and in exhausting routines and do all the moves they need to do?

I dont get it really.

And who invented 'the look', why is it there?

Mariposista · 13/09/2023 16:48

I have always said I would support my kids in their hobbies and not be 'that mum' in any way, either over encouraging them or the other way round. But both DH and I agreed that ballet and gymnastics were a no-go. Whatever they like except those two. It's not worth it. Yes bullying and weight shaming can happen in many activities but with these 2 it seems rife.
Those poor girl (and boys).

PosyPrettyToes · 13/09/2023 16:01

@Comefromaway yes and no though - surely Balanchine was bringing across the aesthetic that was already popular in society of the early 20s? The flapper movement brought in the boyish, ultrathin body trend first, I would think?