Do we continue with piano or not? In two minds and feeling upset

EDITED - sorry, didn’t realise this was an old thread.

Don’t be disheartened.

Early on, it is about building the love of music.

You have said that you are not bothered about grades in themselves, but that you are just worried about lack of progress up the grades being a surrogate for lack of progress. Try not to worry.

Firstly, progress isn’t linear, and progress isn’t uniform. So people can have periods where they seem stuck, and suddenly something clicks, and their progress flies. Also, just because one aspect of his musical progress may not appear to be developing, that doesn’t mean that all aspects of musicianship are also not developing.

Really try not to worry about what grade another child is doing. Working towards a certain grade is not contingent on the child’s ability alone. Some parents may be quite pushy about wanted to see their children collect grades quickly, some children are motivated by exams and seem to need to be working towards one to stay focussed. Some teachers like to take things slower and build other aspects in between grades.

To me, the important thing is that the child has the opportunity to end up as an adult with a love of music and the skills to indulge that. Ideally still actively making music.

i know people who were grade 8 before going to secondary school, and the only music making after that was the bare minimum required by their music scholarship. One of them found his love of music again as a late teenager on another instrument. Another has never played or sang another note and actively avoids music as far as he can.

I realise the frustration, and I understand that there are teachers who may be happy to take your money, but most people aren’t like that, so if the teacher thinks he is progressing, then it’s OK to trust them.

@Tamarapiano and @Newgirls - this thread is from last year.

there is another way to look at this. He clearly enjoys music so could do well at music at secondary school, perhaps choosing to do it at gcse. His keyboard skills will put him ahead of many in his secondary lessons. So maybe keep it going at least up to gcse?

It’s a tough one when kids don’t want to practise. I’ve been a piano teacher for over 20 years and obviously I’ve come across this. It would be a great idea to get him to choose a piece of music he really loves and use that as a spring board for improving sight reading, learning a few scales and improving general musicianship, . The piece of music can be any genres as look as it isn’t above the level he is currently at. It seems a shame to give up, particularly as he’s really enjoying his lessons with his teacher.

Hi OP, like many pp, I agree that lessons without practise is a waste. Fifteen minutes a day minimum, every day, like brushing teeth. That shouldn't be a negotiation.

I don't think grades are important, but they can be helpful for some students in that there is a specific goal, especially for the lower grades. Again, it's not necessary but can be a massive sense of achievement.

One thing though, that may seem basic ... does your son actually know how to practise? And what to practise? Could your piano teacher do a lesson exclusively on that subject, and you take notes? So there's a specific structure to follow. And you sit in on the practise (just sit, don't "help").

Good luck, OP.

Most extra curricular activities end up being just for fun. I mean unless he’s going to be a musician or study music at university what does it matter? Just let him do the lessons for fun and let him enjoy it. (I did piano up to Grade 8 I think and I’ve never done anything with it, I haven’t even played for 20 years now)!

The advice I was given when two of mine were having lessons was don't call it practice as it is playing. So instead of saying "you have to practice" you say "are you going to play something now" I can't say it was magic but it did change attitudes.

Taking the above into account, if my child stayed at level one in swimming for two years, then I’d definitely look at changing pools and teachers!

I wouldn't worry about progression but enjoyment. Loads of kids do extra curricular stuff, swimming, gymnastics etc for fun not because they're going to get gold at the Olympics 😉

Can he not just play for pleasure? He doesn't have to do the grades on anyone else's schedule and he might change his mind when he's older.
Just let him play for the joy of it x

Bubbly. Good luck. Really hope the 5-10 mins with lots of praise carries on helping. The thing to hold on to is that DS enjoys playing and hopefully if he starts to feel that he is making progress and can play more and more interesting pieces, it will encourage him to keep on working. I do think for a lot of kids practicing for 30-45 mins in one go is way too much . I think if my DF had let me do 10 mins and very gradually build up, I’d have been more inclined to keep going. You sound really supportive and that’s really important. I remember my DF saying I had to stay in my room and practice for 45 mins. It just felt never ending to 9 year old me and put me off practising properly from the beginning. Which is sad.

I think if a child wants to progress they will want to practice on their own

Im not sure about that. I really wanted to play well and was frustrated that I couldn’t make the sound I wanted, or play the pieces i wanted to be able to play. I was just far too bone idle to put the work in and relied on being musical to make what I could play, sound as good as possible. I had enough natural talent to get to grade 5 with very minimal and poor quality practice but couldn’t get past that point.

My DB however was also very musical (though he reckons not as musical naturally as I am) but put the hours in and practiced over and over the parts that he struggled with. He could easily practice for 2 or 3 hours after school, then another few hours after a meal and homework. The difference was, he got a scholarship at 14 to the RNCM, and went on to have a fulfilling career in music, and I ended up stuck at grade 5 aged 15, without the technique or will to practice enough to progress further. I gave up lessons and playing completely after GCSEs.

What about videoing his practicing so he feels he is performing for someone. An especially good one could be to share with his teacher. He also gets to watch himself back to correct things like posture.

@Bubblyb00b I do fully understand how you feel.
As I was a 11 years old decades ago, I had an very abusive piano teacher which my parents didn't know how bad the teacher was. It was mainly because my parents were very old fashioned and didn't have much education of their own. I was sent to a teacher recommended by other parents then was moved from previous bad teacher. Then, my nightmare has started there. Because of the teacher thought I was 'too old' 'too lazy' and ' too thick ' to start grade 2 at hers. I was mentally, verbally abused by her for 2-3 years. Of course, I didn't do well on the exam, and more abuse came. Then, for some reasons, she stopped teaching and passed me to another bad teacher. I was even told I was a bad luck so I couldn't go to a supposedly better teacher by this evil woman. Eventually, I was sent to to another bad teacher. This time, the new teacher was quite nice to me and I was there for another 3 years. Sadly, the person didn't teach well, never correct my mistakes correctly and I only found out she wasn't qualified at the time many years after that.
Then, I was lucky enough to have an excellent teacher when I was 20 years old. Sadly, because of years of poor teaching, lack of solid foundation but solid bad habits and poor musically rhythm. I took me many years to relearn the piano and finally achieved grade 8 in my 30s.
Therefore, I would say, please give some space for child to explore and have a proper chat with the teacher or potential teachers. Encourage your child to keep his musical journey. Every kids learn thing differently. Perhaps, try to enjoy playing music together?

I think if a child wants to progress they will want to practice on their own. I don't think I ever once had to remind my DD to practice. She just came home from school and did it often for longer than she had been told to by her teacher. If she was learning a tricky piece she would do chunks at a time so only play the first bit over and over, then once she had mastered that move on to the next bit etc. She flew through the first 3 grades then took longer for higher grades. Her teacher was strict and expected a certain amount of practice and progress each month. If your son doesn't want to practice I'd stop the lessons and just let him play around on the piano on his own. Music is like with sport anyone can do it but to be good you have to practice. Not managing to even pass grade 1 after 2 years is not making progress so I'd bin off that teacher, your son has probably got into bad habits, I'd possibly try a strict and traditional teacher who will insist upon practice. If your D's likes drums let him take drum grades.

Your husband's parents stole his enjoyment of music, that's very sad

I see this everywhere, parents pushing their kids to practice and do grade after grade. It's very unhelpful in the long run. Competitive parenting is so detrimental to music making and enjoyment.

How much practice is he doing ? Have you tried two 5 minute practice sessions a day. Would there be time for you to do that with him? If that’s do-able I’d try that and if it makes it any less of an ordeal for him, gradually build up a minute at a time till you get to 2 x 10 mins a day.

if that doesn’t help what about a more sociable instrument that would mean he could join a group or orchestra. Piano is such a solitary instrument for a child and it isn’t a good for for many. How about the clarinet?

I can really relate to the situation you are in. I was very musical but incredibly lazy and wouldn’t practice. The positives with your DS is he enjoys his lessons and enjoyment should be the main objective . But £35 pw is a big outlay for a child that won’t practice.

I was like your DC. Loved lessons and having fun on the keyboard, improvising etc. But I didn't practice nearly enough, never learned to read music properly, and so didn't progress and eventually gave it up. Looking back, I wish my parents had imposed more discipline on me.

Whereas my DH, as a child, was forced to practice rigorously by strict parents and teachers for many years. He became very proficient. But sadly he hasn't touched a piano for decades now and feels too intimidated to reacquaint himself with it.

So... I think a balanced approach is probably the way to go!!

The Rock school grades are really good and in no way technically less difficult than the "classical" grades. The ABRSM jazz grades are also good as they have an improvised element to them which sounds like something he would enjoy.

However they are not necessary for progress. Any good teacher would find pieces to play that interest their students.

For reference there is eloads and loads of music for all different abilities on the Musescore sheet music website. There is a certain amount free but the subscription is peanuts. My DD down loads most of her piano music from there.

My advice is probably not very good, because we were abused as kids and my mother was 'very strict' so there was absolutely no choice about practicing - we did it, and we progressed.

I am now grateful for that. The method used was terrible and costly, but the outcome is that we did not stop and now we are all musicians. Musicians I meet today all say, 'God I wish I could read music' and I feel glad that I was made to persevere.

What would I do if I had your son? I would practice in front of him. Pick out the notes, start putting it together, and hope he comes over and joins in. But I am not a parent and have that terrible background as my only way of looking back at it.

Good luck and I hope he carries on. Hard work though it may be, if he is talented with music, helping him inch forward in ability to express himself through music will be a blessing.

Why does he need the grades etc, if he doesn't want to do them. Just let him enjoy the lessons.

No sense throwing good money after bad. Stop the lessons. He just likes the attention from the instructor.

In my experience, that is exceptionally slow progress, but visiting the piano and music in general in a structured way every week will enrich his life and ear forever.

I am surprised to hear that the teacher is happy with how things are going - is it a method of encouragement? The teacher's rates are also fairly low... are they qualified? I wonder if it might be worth taking trial lessons with a few others.

Does your DS have dyslexia or any other learning differences?

Regarding encouraging practice, it should be "little and lots". So even visiting the piano for just 2 min a day - 120 seconds! - will be beneficial. Try starting with something as tiny as that, and even suggest that he is not allowed to do more than that. This builds routine, and the idea that it isn't a big deal to plop down at the piano and play a little. He may even enjoy it, then the length of each session can increase. Perhaps finding another target could help. Does the teacher run class concerts? School opportunities? If he enjoys pop music, could he form a band with some friends?

I agree with pp that the piano may not be the right instrument for him. As far as I can tell (I'm not musical at all) it seems harder than other instruments - my DS age 13 has been playing for 5 years and is working on grade 6 whereas he's been playing a brass instrument for 2 years and is working on grade 5.

Also, it's easier to play in a band or orchestra with most other instruments. My DS loves playing in a band.