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Do Brownie groups differ a lot?

28 replies

BeccaGeej · 19/04/2023 19:39

DD is 8 and has been at Brownies for a year and a half. She's always moderately enjoyed it but never loved it. She loves getting the badges but doesn't really enjoy the meetings. She had a group of friends but they were all older than her so have moved up to Guides and she now feels she has no friends there. A couple of her friends from school go to other units and when I asked their mums if they enjoyed Brownies, they said they loved it but from what they were saying, their groups sound a bit more dynamic. DD's unit seems a bit disorganised, we never get a programme of events, never really know what badges if any they are working towards, she randomly comes home with badges sometimes that she wasn't even aware she was working towards! She often says they've just played games, rather than actually 'doing' anything.
DD is now saying she wants to give it up but I'm reluctant. She is an only and we really wanted her to try and develop a circle of friends outside of school. If she drops Brownies, she will only do school based extra curricular activities. I know all the leaders are volunteers so don't want to be too picky but I'm wondering if I should just let DD leave or whether I should enquire about her moving to a different unit if there is room but there's no guarantee she would make friends there either. Just worry she may come to regret it if she gives up.
Does her unit sound particularly disorganised or pretty standard?

OP posts:
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456pickupsticks · 27/05/2023 16:00

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

This is entirely incorrect.
All leaders have access to training in the official programme, and where units aren't meeting it, the commissioner would then get in touch to help them to offer it properly. District, Division and County Commissioners are the chain up which issues would be escalated if there was to be a problem, and they certainly check on how groups are run (in most Districts, there's termly meetings where you're asked to share what you've been doing that term).

Leaders with Girlguiding are trained in Safeguarding. To be a qualified unit leader, you have to have completed Levels 1, 2 and 3 of official Safeguarding training (totalling about 5 hours). At any meeting or event, there must be at least one volunteer who's completed Level 3 (as well as holds a first aid qualification).
To stay as an adult at a residential with Girlguiding you have to have completed Level 1 and 2.

The onus on Girlguiding volunteers in terms of paperwork and training is actually much larger than in scouting!

OP - The way the skills builder badges work in particular, is that there's 5 activities to complete, and girls must do 4 of them to earn the badge. Sometimes these are games, or leaders can adapt them to turn them into games, so there's every chance your daughter is completing things for the badge, and legitimately playing games.
This week we started our first aid stage 3 skills builder, We started the session with one of our favourite games, then we had a discussion about different peoples needs, then we 'played a game' where girls had to run to the side of the room to say what something was a symptom of. Then we came back together for a discussion about emotions and things, then 'played a game' where girls all had to act out different feelings, and show them through their words, body language and actions. Then we finished with a quick round of a sitting down game whilst the leaders sorted out birthday cards and badges to be given out. It would be perfectly legitimate for a Brownie to go home and say 'we played lots of game tonight', but we've also signed off some criteria of the first aid badge.

I'd say contact the leaders and let them know she has started to enjoy it less since her older friends left, and she's having trouble making new friends. They should be able to work into the programme some group activities or other activities which would help her make some new friends. If she's super keen on badges, you could also encourage her to do interest badges at home, and if she's done lots of them, ask the leaders if there's any other badges she can work on in her spare time (or over the holidays)
I also know lots of units will have something exciting planned for this half term in the run up to summer hols with lighter nights.
I'd say tell her she is committed until the unit breaks up for summer, and then you can make a decision in August about whether she really doesn't want to go back, just make sure if she's not going back you let the leaders know a couple of weeks before term starts so they can offer her place to someone else on the waiting list.

AnotherGuideLeader · 23/04/2023 18:47

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

  1. Training for the programme: https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/learning-and-development/programme-training/

Specific programme training available online since 2018, as well as webinars and in-person training. Before that, downloadable guidance, local trainings, national training weekends, advice in guiding magazine, and a large amount of published programme material.

  1. Standards: https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/programme-and-activities/doing-our-best-standards/

Previously: "Good guiding is...", with downloadable resources and pullouts in the magazine, together with the Guiding Manual which detailed our rules and guidance.

  1. Safeguarding training: https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/learning-and-development/a-safe-space-training/

"Everyone needs to have the correct level of a safe space training for their role. You may have your membership withdrawn if you do not complete the levels you need. Find out what happens if you haven't completed your training."

A Safe Space training

Our safeguarding training ensures that volunteers offer girls a safe space where they can have fun, learn and grow

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/learning-and-development/a-safe-space-training

Talipesmum · 23/04/2023 17:32

Yes, the groups will vary - it all very much depends on the volunteers running it. My experience is with cubs / scouts etc but diff groups had very different atmospheres and cultures - depends on the leaders.

SiouxsieSiouxStiletto · 23/04/2023 17:24

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

I was going to advise looking into Scouting as well. There is usually a good mix of boys and girls in the groups these days.

MrsJamin · 19/04/2023 22:21

It's very telling that the only defence of girl guides lying about men and boys sleeping next to girls is that this is the scouts policy too. Any organisation that positively encourages their volunteers to lie (and excludes those who tell the truth and share safeguarding concerns) is not one you would want to trust your child to.

BeccaGeej · 19/04/2023 21:38

Thank you. Yes, I was planning on speaking to the leaders first and seeing if they could encourage some friendship groups. The helpfulness of their response would also influence our decision I think.
Yes, will definitely try and get her enrolled in something else if she does drop it.

OP posts:
Lyricallie · 19/04/2023 20:33

Yup depends on the unit and what the girls enjoy. Also the programme is quite different nowadays there are no longer lots and lots of varied badges like it used to be. Now more tailored and their theme matches with the programme the girls should be doing in their units.

Also it sounds like some previous posters had a bad experience but all I can say is my experience and I have done lots and lots of safeguarding training both as a leader and a district commissioner. There has been a new rule brought in that if the leader doesn’t complete their safe space training they can be removed from girl guiding and are no longer allowed to be a member never mind a leader!

CatRatSplat · 19/04/2023 20:32

Men are allowed to volunteer, I have 2 in my district. They cannot become full "leaders", but they have DBs, safe space (safeguarding) training and first aid. If we did not have them at least one of the units would not be able to run.

Male children go are generally leaders' children. Again if they didn't go neither would your child.

Back to OP: in our district (area) we rarely allow transfers between the local units unless for a very good reason otherwise after every falling out it would be a swap session. I would recommend talking to your brownie leaders and seeing if they can try and shuffle your daughter into different groups to mix and see if any friendships are started.

Our units are different because we use our volunteers' skills and interests to run the programme. We still stick to the programme but there is flexibility within it.

I would also suggest if you choose to drop Brownies that you find something else to try, but see what they say first.

averylongtimeago · 19/04/2023 20:29

And as for the trans issue: the rules are the same for Scouts. Also, in nearly 30 years as a leader, it's not something I have had experience of personally.

averylongtimeago · 19/04/2023 20:24

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

It is just not true that there is no safeguarding training. All leaders do regular safeguarding training, which you have to keep up to date. (I've been a Brown Owl, Guide and Ranger leader).

Yes groups do differ, as all leaders are different. Some are good at outdoor stuff, others are more craft oriented. Chat to other parents to find one that you like the sound of.

All guiding groups from Rainbows through to Rangers follow a program- which should be recorded and various awards given. There are also interest badges they can work on at home. You can find out about the program on the website:

www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-badges-and-activities/programme-for-every-girl/programme-overview/

Don't worry about changing packs- just remember to let the first Brown Owl know!

arethereanyleftatall · 19/04/2023 20:13

I would imagine that as it's run by volunteers, it's bound to differ enormously. Some really engaged, some not.

Ours basically just gave the girls papers and pens every week, and just chatted, but I had no problems with that whatsoever. Why would I, given that the alternative was giving my own time up for free to child mind.

shmiz · 19/04/2023 20:12

MrsJamin · 19/04/2023 20:09

They do vary a lot. Some have male volunteers and male children however everyone pretends that they are women and girls and they won't tell parents of their real status. And yes this includes nights away where the boys sleep next to the girls and men can sleep near the girls.

This is true ….
girl guiding’s policies on trans girls / women is not good…
but in 11 years of guiding I have not seen the trans issue arise

NoIncomeTaxNoVAT · 19/04/2023 20:11

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

Rainbow and Brownie leader here. This is completely untrue. All leaders complete various levels of safeguarding training with every meeting requiring someone trained to level 3If you are referring to the Girlguiding policy on trans members, you should be aware that scouts have the same policy and also permit trans members to share tents on the basis of their gender rather than biological sex.Its fine to disagree with the Girlguiding policy but its not fine to make such untrue comments in relation to keeping the girls safe.

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 20:10

shmiz · 19/04/2023 20:07

Some odd beliefs here -
Yes it is totally staffed by volunteers
there is very specific training for
safeguarding
first aid
delivering the programme accordingly to section / age
there is governance regarding how units are run

if guiding is not for you, fair enough, but let’s not spout incorrect information!!

I am speaking from direct experience.

My experience was poor, clearly and so what I'm saying is, you cannot guarantee the level of training or experience your 'wonderful volunteers' have in ever pack or district.

Gymmum82 · 19/04/2023 20:10

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

Yes they do. Leaders have to do a 3 day course in safeguarding

MrsJamin · 19/04/2023 20:09

They do vary a lot. Some have male volunteers and male children however everyone pretends that they are women and girls and they won't tell parents of their real status. And yes this includes nights away where the boys sleep next to the girls and men can sleep near the girls.

shmiz · 19/04/2023 20:07

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

Some odd beliefs here -
Yes it is totally staffed by volunteers
there is very specific training for
safeguarding
first aid
delivering the programme accordingly to section / age
there is governance regarding how units are run

if guiding is not for you, fair enough, but let’s not spout incorrect information!!

Marmite27 · 19/04/2023 20:06

My youngest has just completed her 1st Anniversary, so I’ve only been a volunteer in the last year, as we started at the same time.

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 20:04

Marmite27 · 19/04/2023 20:02

I disagree with this, I’ve had safeguarding and first aid training through GG.

Our local cub pack (which incidentally is run by one of my close friends) is described as ‘being too much like school’ from the children I know have tried it!

Then it clearly varies massively by district. Because I had no training or support in the 5 years I ran a guide unit.

I asked for it and was told not to be 'obstructive'

I left in the end.

ItsCalledAConversation · 19/04/2023 20:04

The two we have experienced differed wildly, one was run by slightly musty older ladies and was very 1950s, we removed her because it was all so odd. The other was a tightly-run ship very organised and productive, the leader even sewed all the badges onto the sashes etc and would chase you up for the extras the girls had to do to attain them. They all leave with sashes stuffed with badges, having achieved lots. A great experience.

Marmite27 · 19/04/2023 20:04

and our district commissioners visit our meetings regularly to ensure we’re delivering the programme correctly.

Apologies, I should ensure I’ve made all the points I want to before posting Wink

Marmite27 · 19/04/2023 20:02

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

I disagree with this, I’ve had safeguarding and first aid training through GG.

Our local cub pack (which incidentally is run by one of my close friends) is described as ‘being too much like school’ from the children I know have tried it!

Marmite27 · 19/04/2023 20:00

We started at one unit that was woefully disorganised. My eldest did 3 terms of rainbows there and my youngest her first term. I volunteered as a parent helper for the youngest’s only term there and saw it first hand.

We’re now at a lovely group that fits us well, despite not being the closest, there are several other pack members on our street!

You are allowed to request to move packs - some people think this isn’t possible. We have 4/5 Brownie groups accessible to us, when I was small there was only 1! I’m quite amazed there’s enough demand/volunteers to run them all Smile

Mustardandchickensandwiches · 19/04/2023 19:59

Yes it differs massively because it's run by volunteers. Girl guiding give no training for the programme and there are no standards to keep to and nobody checking on how groups are run.

It's also worth bearing in mind girl guiding provide no child safeguarding training.

I would look into scouting

Floralnomad · 19/04/2023 19:56

Either try a different unit or perhaps ask around and see if you can get into a good Cub pack , lots of girls do Cubs / scouts and IMO they are generally more dynamic , although again that does depend on the group .