Spring 23 music thread

@Teapotkitten Each Music conservatoire ( specialist university)usually has a Junior department ( JD) on a Saturday where you can apply to do individual lessons, musicianship, ensembles etc. It can be quite intense and expensive but DD loves it. Some weeks she is 8.30-6pm, mostly 9-4.30. Her first year she was 10-3.30 I think. For ours it goes on potential not just current level but others will have a minimum grade level. There is usually an audition and interview.

Piano, tbh, is a bit of a pain for groups, as lots of children play but most groups only need one, and at lower levels that piano might be played by an adult. A second ‘orchestral’ instrument might open up further possibilities.

Conservatoire Juniors - see for example Birmingham Conservatoire Again, googling ‘name of conservatoire’ + junior will almost certainly bring up the options. They tend to be for quite serious junior musicians and there may be an audition.

Thank you so much @cantkeepawayforever , that's really useful to know!
I googled a couple of counties as we're on a border, one of them has a dreadful website and it'll probably take me a while to unpick what's happening there, but the other looks like there may be a bit of stuff locally for various instruments (nothing for piano that I can see but DS has been making noises about doing a second instrument).
What is the Conservatiore Juniors?

DS, now just finishing Conservatoire, came through our county music service - 3 levels of Jazz groups; Saturday morning music centre; wind orchestra and then county youth orchestra. His state comprehensive had an inclusive but slightly random approach to music to complement this and his 1:1 lessons - including everything from the band for the annual show to a boys’ choir with highly competitive entry. He did Conservatoire Juniors in 6th firm, though if there us nothing else near you locally, that may be worth looking into earlier for both solo lessons and ensembles.

Teapot - try googling ‘county’ + ‘music service’ if you are outside London.

Although many services are a shadow of their former selves, compared to when peripatetic teachers were centrally employed and then also signposted their pupils to the Saturday ensembles they also led, something usually exists. Some private schools may also be home to open music centres at the weekends.

That sounds like a lot of fun - is it expensive/difficult to get in? Although I don't know if there's anything like that around us. I think I need to investigate a bit as I'm not sure our local secondarys are much good for music. I'm going to ask at their autumn open days, but I don't hold out too much hope!

Sorry- I mean like a Saturday music centre where they have lessons and ensembles together (and theory and choir). Both my dds are at cym in London, which offers this.

In my area most children don't start lessons until secondary school. Very little is offered in primary.

@minisnowballs apologies if this seems a silly question, but what is a Saturday School?

@minisnowballs this is making me laugh a lot - gotta love being copied into emails like that!

I think that whilst there are lots of instrument options at my DCs junior school, they're all run as group lessons with approx 4 per group (25 min lessons) and the groups are for scheduling purposes rather than any ability grouping so they're only really any good for trying out an instrument with the advantage of the loan from school. We used it for DS flute lessons for 2 years and then swapped him to private 1:1 lessons externally as the group ones weren't ideal by that point. I hadn't realised before then that they weren't all at a similar point - so rather than being taught as a group, they all played individually so each lesson might include one 'abracadabra flute' piece per child. For DD we didn't even bother as didn't want her having group violin lessons.

The nice thing about all the music at juniors is that they run lots of ensembles - though DD hates the strings one, and its a weekly challenge of complaining about going at 8am on a Monday morning. If she can't get over it I might let her drop it next year, mainly cos its a rubbish start to the week for all of us!

Loads of kids learn at juniors and its great from that perspective, but the majority seem to drop it by secondary school. Its also noticeable that after 4 years of group lessons the majority taking exams only get to grade 1 or 2, and then when they start secondary the minimum standard for orchestras is grade 3 - so another reason why they don't continue!

They do run a super popular choir though and do things like young voices, so that bit is really good - whereas the instrumental tuition is nice that its offered (and given funding cuts and everything else state schools have to deal with I appreciate that its extra work that they don't have to do), but the reality is that the output is a bit 'mixed'.

I wouldn't mind, but I have grade 5 piano (scraped...) Their dad genuinely cannot sing or play a note, and clearly I come across as a total ignoramus!

Haha @minisnowballs how funny! It was luck like that for me and DH too.

I think DS’s state primary does recorder in year 1 and then they all learn the same other instrument as a big group in year 2 or 3 - seems to vary year on year so one year it’s violin the next cornet! And then those that seem to have an aptitude can carry on learning with a peripatetic teacher. Seems quite hit or Miss in terms of instrument choice but I guess better than nothing.

I think we were very, very lucky. Both DDs only play anything at all because their state primary did so much music - including shedloads of singing. They also recommended DD2 for Saturday music school (i still have the email the head inadvertently copied me into to DD's Head of Department at Saturday School which includes the gutting line 'the parents are not musical'...!)

Plenty of rock band instruments too - I've always wished mine played guitar or drums!

Wow, I feel like I might be living in a bit of a musical wasteland where I am - our (state) primary doesn't have any orchestral instruments at all, they give the children some ukelele lessons halfway through and that's it. When I was in a similar primary I went to a sort of fair thing where there were lots of instruments to have a go on and then get lessons for (I ended up choosing trumpet because the line for the flutes was too long, probably why I didn't stick with it!). I'd hoped there would be similar for my DC but so far I haven't heard of anything like that around.

I think that a lot of it comes down to what's available - in state schools the instruments kids learn are often driven by what school offers. Our junior offers quite a lot (violin, cello, flute, clarinet, recorder, euphonium, tenor horn, trumpet, trombone etc) but nothing that's too expensive to have instruments in school. This then feeds through to the senior schools. The independent schools have a fuller range so their pupils choose from that. It also helps them have more extensive orchestras.

I think though that the upshot is that choosing whatever your child is most interested in is obviously the main approach - but if they're indifferent perhaps an oboe / trombone / double bass could lead to greater opportunities if they're keen.

My son only wanted to play the horn. Luckily that’s what school allocated him- they all got a year of individual lessons in year 3 (independent school). They trial all of them on a taster day and the tutors allocate based on that. His year 3 had 4 horn players. He’s the only one still playing and he’s currently studying at conservatoire on horn.

I do wonder if a lot of the emphasis on rarer instruments in prep schools is in pursuit of music scholarships to senior schools. Don't get me wrong I think it's great, but one thing that prep schools are keen on is telling prospective parents how many scholarships they have been awarded, as well as parents rather liking a scholarship. There isn't the same incentive in state primary schools and some of these instruments are expensive to buy when music budgets are very tight already. I do wonder if there will be a move away from these instruments even in prep schools,as most sholarships are now moving to honorary rather than pecuniary.

I played oboe at school because we were all asked if we would like instrumental lessons and the music teacher allocated the instruments that were available.

Ds has been known to take a full sized weighted 88 key digital piano on the train and buses!

I think that this is wise re instrument choosing. We mainly focused on whether it would fit in a pannier for cycling to school, so DS got flute but I didn't think about the limited spots in orchestras. He loves it though and really enjoys playing in wind bands and flute ensembles more than orchestras. DD plays violin - which is ok on the bike, and whilst a popular choice its also one with lots needed for orchestras so works well for her at the moment.

Bass / Harp / Tuba all a definite no from me from a transportation perspective. We cycle to Saturday music too so don't want to be forced to drive (London)!

I find instrument choice so interesting! I liken it to the wand choosing process in Harry Potter 🤣.

All the professional oboists and bassoonists I know played something else first, ranging from violin to flute to trumpet - I guess it helps if you’re slightly older when you start them so makes sense that a lot of kids would move from something else. I got given my own instrument at random because there was one kicking round the music service. I’d never even heard of it before I started but I just absolutely fell in love with it and never looked back.

Tempted to be slightly more strategic with my own DCs - probably wouldn’t encourage the flute or clarinet as there are usually so many for comparatively few spots in orchestra. Or anything that requires wheels to move it around!

One of the other local schools to us (which has a music specialism with 'scholars' - state places) has just sold its four bassoons, allegedly to spend the money on yet another keyboard.

DD2's bassoon teacher's son goes to this school and I'm sure could have at least pointed them to a teacher if she didn't want to teach there herself. Shortsighted I think - they could have had a real specialism there.

I'm not sure who they've sold them to, but my money is on an indie. Sad really as I'd like more kids like mine to get the opportunity to try something more unusual. There must be loads of bassoons knocking around in the grammar and ex grammar state schools and music services that aren't getting used.

Instrument spread is very interesting. Dd is at an independent school and there's lots of music.
In her sinfonia orchestra in school she's 4th cellist but the three above her are all post grade 8! More play in the string orchestra - about 10 altogether where she's maybe 6th cello at g5 level.
Randomly we have about 8 French horn players! Quite a few trumpets too. A few trombones and one tuba.
A few oboe players (two of DD's friends play) but they don't seem to want to join the orchestra. One bassoonist but she's U6th so will leave this year.
We have violinists coming out of our ears!

36 flutes is quite something. Our school is huge and I'm not sure 36 pupils have woodwind lessons in total!

My DD is the only child in our whole council area to play bassoon and she does it privately. Other DD is the only oboe, same. They just don't teach it. Shame as mini bassoon is pretty easy to pick up, it's light and a good size for younger players and doesn't have the same pressure feeling as the oboe with breathing. It's ludicrously expensive though, probably the main reason. Our council definitely favours flutes, clarinet and sax, violin and cello. Some brass but no ' heavy ' brass so bass trombone or tuba, not one single french horn as far as I know and only about 3 double basses. Eleventy billion bagpipes and chanters though, it's well funded here ( in Scotland obviously!)