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Original poster

Constructively dismissed by Girlguiding

118 replies

iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 00:17

Hi all,

I have been constructively dismissed by Girlguiding for raising concerns. And no, not their trans policy ones. My daughters have also been excluded as result. They never investigated or dealt with my concerns.

I'm putting this here because:

  1. I want people to know that volunteering with them is dangerous and you could find yourself in the very difficult situation I find myself in with my girls
  2. If anyone else experiences this in the future, please get in touch. I spoke to a few journalists at length about this. A handful were interested in the story, but ultimately their editor said it couldn't fly without multiple people saying the same things.

I appreciate this is a very brief post and I'm happy to give more details, but I'm aware that short posts are easier to process. If I was reading this a few years ago I'd think "there's more to this than meets the eye", and there definitely is, but I'm keen to keep this short and sweet.

OP posts:
anyolddinosaur · 28/10/2022 05:24

@NoIncomeTaxNoVAT I was a volunteer for quite a few years. My DNB check was never carried out. I found out the first time (maybe 2 years in) when I was asked to complete the forms a second time. I found out when I left that it still hadnt been done (because I was told they could stop chasing it). Meanwhile I had a check carried out for a different volunteer role that was completed very rapidly, so definitely no issue had the forms been submitted. This was not a local issue but HQ obviously didnt give a fuck.

Crunchyb · 28/10/2022 05:17

Original Poster, beware of those posters who are trying to goad you into revealing more information than you intended, and perhaps more information than it is wise to reveal. You don’t have to respond to every query or accusation. Your situation is not entertainment for people who are bored with their lives.

You initially stated that you wanted to hear from others in a similar situation. You’ve given more than enough information for people to do that. If you also want to air your grievances here, please check you are okay to do so legally.

musicalfrog · 28/10/2022 04:34

I hope that if anyone had similar concerns they will make contact with you OP ans strengthen your case.

If a volunteer is no longer allowed to volunteer for an organization I don't know what the term is, but there must be one.

Anyway thank you for seeing concerns and raising them. Not enough people do it and unfortunately standards slip as a result.

onlylarkin · 28/10/2022 04:21

I want to pop in to say I am so sorry this happened to you. I am in the US and a long time volunteer for our equivalent here, and I can imagine how I would feel if I were in your position.

TheOnlyBeeInYourBonnet · 28/10/2022 02:48

Sorry you've gone through that OP.

A Scout leader near here was absolutely destroyed over the way he was treated after an unfortunate incident beyond his control. It was shocking to see the way the organisation closed ranks to protect itself, at the expense of a good person who had dedicated a huge chunk of his life to their cause.

Original poster
iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 02:32

@Findingmypurposeinlife I told them I was making a protected disclosure and they came back to me and refused to use their whistleblowing policy. Pretty good indication of what was ahead of me when they did that! All it effectively gives me is protection from detriment as a result of making the disclosures - and they explicitly said no to this. I was aware of a few WB volunteer cases making their way through the courts, but there's no way I can be bothered with any of that.

OP posts:
Findingmypurposeinlife · 28/10/2022 02:14

There was apparently a case at the Supreme Court that set a precedent regarding whistleblowing protection being extended to volunteers. You should ask them (HQ) to make their whistleblowing policy available and explain its purpose.

Original poster
iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 01:47

@NoIncomeTaxNoVAT have done that. I'm sorry if you feel my post was too vague. Are there points you want clarified? I just didn't want a post that was too long because then people (myself included) can't be arsed reading it. There is a public interest issue in this, and if my girls were still included, I, as a parent, would want to know about this, and would want to know if it was widespread, hence my post. Thanks for giving your time to girls. Would you like me to share the screenshots demonstrating recruitment checks weren't done? Or if easier I can forward you all the email PDFs.

OP posts:
NoIncomeTaxNoVAT · 28/10/2022 01:43

If you are a trustee of an individual unit, then i assume you are in Scotland? In which case you can complain to the office of scottish charity regulator, which will be of more value in protecting the girls in the unit than a random vague MN post.

Original poster
iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 01:43

@VickyGiggIesStrictlyHaIIoweenHorrors - DBS checks are free for volunteers!

OP posts:
Original poster
iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 01:43

@Tigerbus and @VickyGiggIesStrictlyHaIIoweenHorrors thank you.

@TheNosehasit defo believe in redemption and would love to be involved... I'm just really struggling with time right now. I will defo remember it for a later date. Thank you

OP posts:
Original poster
iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 01:39

@NoIncomeTaxNoVAT do you want me to share some screenshots to show you that recuitment checks were not carried out and I was lied to about it? It happened. I was shocked too, and would never have thought it possible. HQ didn't investigate for 16 months, and then I left - I've no idea if they subsequently have but I doubt it. I'm not sure if I could live with myself if one of the girls was abused by a known offender that they'd not bothered to do recruitment checks on.

OP posts:
Original poster
iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 01:37

@TheNosehasit thanks - maybe in the future but I have too much going on at the moment to take on any new roles. I'm not especially wagerring some campaign against them, I just want it here when others think of volunteering for them or if the same happens to someone else. I can't be unique given they did it to me and they also kicked Katie and Helen out for asking safeguarding questions. Re Katie and Helen, I actually see how it's very difficult to balance the rights and needs of different groups, but surely kicking them out just for asking the questions isn't not ok? I'm shocked at what happened and there is a public interest in this.

@Findingmypurposeinlife I agree. They had about 16 months sitting on this before I decided enough was enough. Doubt they've investigated it to this day. It put me in a really difficult position because I would feel responsible if one of the volunteers at the unit I ran was actually on the barred list of offenders and went on to abuse a girl (even though I'd been lied to about the recruitment checks being carried out).

@MindfulBear there was more to why I felt I needed to resign than just their inaction, although their inaction, and the implications of this was a major part. For example, I remained a trustee of the unit which was an independently registered charity yet they prevented me from having any control over it - but still expected me to shoulder the responsibility for it, which could include if something went wrong as a result of the issues I knew existed. They excluded my girls. I got an email saying that they'd been removed, and a subject access request showed that the district commissioner instructed this for both of my children.

OP posts:
TheNosehasit · 28/10/2022 01:33

The WIP has the wellbeing of women at heart which is similar to a girl-guide ethos I think?

I imagine that your experience would be really useful to a similar organisation. Some of these ladies who have been to prison have probably never been camping or the likes in their lives.

I know that not everyone believes in redemption, so it might not be your bag, but could you imagine the happiness (and stress!) of bringing a load of women on their first camping trip lol.

VickyGiggIesStrictlyHaIIoweenHorrors · 28/10/2022 01:33

From her posts, the OP has felt she had to resign, and her girls are no longer allowed to attend. Even if at a local level, safeguarding should not be ignored - I am amazed they have volunteers without DBS clearance (even knowing it takes a while and costs). Risk assessments for activities are needed so that volunteers like the OP are not sued for when something inevitably goes wrong. Sorry for you OP but it sounds like you are well out of it. I would sign your girls up for cadets instead.

Tigerbus · 28/10/2022 01:32

I'm so sorry that this has happened. You dedicated your time to allow children to have a few hours a week to have fun and gain some fantastic skills.
Whistle blowing should be a skill that children learn is safe and good practice in advocacy.
Thank you for the time you gave to the children in your responsibility.

NoIncomeTaxNoVAT · 28/10/2022 01:32

I should add that i am a GG volunteer, i have been for many years, and have always found the safeguarding team at HQ in particular to very hot on responding to issues.

NoIncomeTaxNoVAT · 28/10/2022 01:29

Findingmypurposeinlife · 28/10/2022 01:21

I would agree that DBS checks are really important and if not being carried out, this should definitely be investigated.

There is absolutely no way that HQ would allow someone who should have had a DBS to volunteer without one. It's a massive massive risk in terms of reputation and charity commission rules. I suppose OP is being deliberately vague to avoid being outing but it is making it difficult to understand what is going on here.

MindfulBear · 28/10/2022 01:26

I understand you have felt you needed to resign due to their inaction.

Have they barred your children? Or are you saying that where you are it is unsafe for your children to go without you and therefore you need to stop them going?

Original poster
iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 01:26

@Quveas I know it's unusual for a volunteer to be able to prove a relationship in an ET, and I can't see how a Girlguiding volunteer would. There are a few examples where a relationship has been demonstrated, eg Maria DeLourdes Armitage v Relate & others, Migrant Advisory Service v Mrs K Chaudri, Murray v Newham Citizens Advice Bureau. Etc. But I'm not here to talk about an ET claim. ET claims are expensive when the other side would undoubtebly have a KC representing them, and you need representation. Yes, of course you can represent yourself at an ET, but cases where you'd win against senior counsel are very few and far between, although Michalak comes to mind. Legal representation is expensive - I would know, I've done it. The term "constructive dismissal" isn't a particularly technical or legal one, and can be used whilst an ET judge hasn't deemed this true. It just means I've been forced to leave my role against my will because of Girlguiding's conduct.

@Macaroni1924 my girls can't go because I got an email saying they'd been removed from Girlguiding. I didn't get an explanation. Subject access shows district commissioner instructed them to be removed when I made the complaints.

If the line "constructive dimissal" isn't a preferred one, that's fine, I don't really care what term is used but it seems a useful summary term of what happened.

OP posts:
TheNosehasit · 28/10/2022 01:26

Are there any other causes which you feel passionate about? I know of one in particular which is crying out for support (it's a tiny little voice in the wilderness currently). In fact, thinking about it, your girl-guide experience might even be something they'd love to help the women with.

It's not everyone's bag, but it's a group called Women in Prison (their aim is to keep women out of prison as far as possible).

This is from their latest newsletter

Today we publish our new report on The Value of Women's Centres. It shows Women’s Centres generate a nearly triple return on public investment, by keeping women out of prison and easing demand for other services.
But nearly half of Women’s Centres surveyed are concerned about their survival.
Read the report
The new modelling shows that an example Women’s Centre receiving £1m in a given year can support over 650 women and generate £2.75m in public sector savings, while providing a lifeline for vital services and significantly improving wellbeing for women and their children.
The Government have already acknowledged that Women’s Centres are central to ensuring they can meet the aims of their women’s justice strategy and that the needs of women facing multiple disadvantage cannot be addressed in isolation by different government departments.

Help us spread the word
You can support us:

Send the report to your friends and family
Show support on twitter, by retweeting or using the hashtag #ValueWomensCentres (some suggested tweets below)
Women’s Centres generate a nearly triple return on public investment, by keeping women out of prison and easing demand for other services. Read @WIP_live new report womeninprison.org.uk/news/report-launch-the-value-of-womens-centres

We need sustainable funding for Women’s Centres now #ValueWomensCentres

I support @WIP_live and call for the sustainable funding for Women’s Centres #ValueWomensCentres

Read their new report here: womeninprison.org.uk/news/report-launch-the-value-of-womens-centres

Thank you again for your support
Name1 and Name2, the Campaigns Team

Findingmypurposeinlife · 28/10/2022 01:21

I would agree that DBS checks are really important and if not being carried out, this should definitely be investigated.

TheNosehasit · 28/10/2022 01:16

This was obviously a role you enjoyed and to which you gave many years.

I can't give you much advice really other than to suggest that you put your enthusiasm into a volunteer role which might be more in need of volunteers?

I know what it feels like when you're not valued or appreciated.

There are very many charities who could benefit from your dedication and commitment in the future.

Onwards and upwards!

Original poster
iloveholidays1 · 28/10/2022 01:14

@ThatGirlInACountrySong - indeed, I'd love to hear their version of events too, and so would the journalist who I know phoned them for a statement at least twice.

@MajorCarolDanvers it's called an employment tribunal. Are you a solicitor or a barrister? Constructive dismissal if not a term that is exclusively for ET claims. I've already said I don't want to go to an ET so why are you advising me that I can't? It's not true to say an organisation can kick you out for any reason but I'm not here to argue about the legal issues. How could I have exhausted their complaints process if they've not provided a substantive response? I'm not sure journalists would speak to me for several hours in total and in some cases seek the response of GG if they were just making polite excuses. Surely they'd just ignore me? I wouldn't have time to speak to someone I didn't know for hours just to be "polite". It sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. You can think what you like, but I want this post here for others who may either consider volunteering for them or suffer the experience that my children and I did.

OP posts:
TooHotToRamble · 28/10/2022 01:14

I don't think you understand what constructive dismissal means.