Testing for perfect pitch

Hi @PinotAndPlaydough.

That’s great that your dc’s teacher uses Kodaly.

I’m a professional violinist and I have perfect pitch,it’s useful when playing contemporary music and for pitching high notes but that’s about it 😀.

It can be a disadvantage though.... many years ago I did a recital (when I was a teen) and when the pianist and I turned up to rehearse the piano was a semi tone flat. It was a disaster for me,I got through it (badly I think) but it was very difficult. Luckily that’s the only negative experience.

I've never heard of any formal testing for perfect pitch, it sort of becomes blinking obvious as things go on. As a singer perfect pitch can be excruciating for many reasons. If your DD is enjoying music so much, and clearly had an amazing ear can I recommend Kodaly training? That plus an inspirational violin teacher and she will fly high. My children are doing Kodaly rather than abrsm theory alongside their instruments (will walk g5 theory when needed) and I mightily wish I'd had that visceral understanding of music and finely honed ears they're getting.

DS1 has something like it, we found out when he was about 3 and he got grumpy because someone was singing Let It Go in the wrong key. We aren't sure if it's absolute pitch or just very good relative pitch, we don't often ask him to sing notes in isolation to be honest. He's 11 now, and it's useful to him as he plays violin, but there aren't any formal tests for it that we know of, it just means he's got a good musical ear. A friend who plays viola says he may find he can switch to viola later as you need a good ear for playing the countermelodies. He gets it from me; I have very good relative pitch but I can't sing a Bb in isolation, for example. I can tell if things aren't in the key they're meant to be, though I can't do that unless I've heard what it's supposed to sound like first. It's hard to describe!

I've only ever known one pupil with true absolute/perfect pitch, he's amazing, it's like a magic trick! He can't help it, and he gets very frustrated when sounds don't feel right. He can literally tell you what pitch the phone rings at.

The only note I know if it’s in tune or not is A. For tuning. And I can sing an A. Apart from that it’s relative pitch - so I can hear if a note is sharp or flat to what has preceded, if one of my kids is playing violin I have been known to shout from another room for example - ‘that F# is a smidgen flat - move your finger up a millimetre ! ‘

Dh keeps pranking ds by altering the tuning on the digital piano. It totally messes with his head!

OP - whether DD has perfect pitch will not make a huge difference to her life. It's more of a party trick. Yes it will make aural tests easier - ie "where has the piece modulated to" and dictation, but on a day to day level, relative pitch is much more useful, as others have said.

Playing in an orchestra is about fitting in, and adjusting to others around you.

The thing I hate about it is that I’m really intolerant to notes that aren’t perfect.

And this is so true. It gets even worse when you start working in different countries where they tune differently. UK is 440 for orchestras, where I currently live it’s 443/444. My instrument drops throughout the concert so I regularly need to tune to 445. It drives me nuts as I keep my instrument at home tuned to 442 so fairly neutral - but before corona I would be in a different country each week and going between all the frequencies was a nightmare. I felt like I was always out of tune!

It sounds like she’s really enjoying music and that’s what matters at this age!

I have perfect pitch although it’s much easier for me to recognise notes in a harmonic setting rather than random single notes (relative pitch). I can do both, just that the process in my head is different.

There are no tests as such for it, except being told to ‘sing a G’ and her nailing it. This also differs from instrument to instrument - if you play clarinet or horn you might name the note correctly according to your instrument’s transposition, although that’s technically ‘wrong’ IYSWIM.

Some kids have it naturally. I believe I achieved it through solfege and always singing the name of the notes when I play, so have most people with perfect pitch that I know. I did solfege and aural training between the ages of 5-12, then 4 years of harmony and aural analysis. Every single note I play on my instrument also has a name in my head, it’s impossible to separate the concepts. When I studied music in the UK I had a really hard time singing with la-la-la. For me the only note that could ever be called la, is the A

I currently work in one of the top 5 professional orchestras worldwide. Not everyone has perfect pitch, and these are some of the most talented musicians in the world. Relative pitch is SO much more important at the professional level. Everyone has relative pitch, which we use all day every day without realising. Being able to know your note’s function in a chord or within a certain harmony is much more useful than identifying lots of single random notes.

We had aural tests for it at school but that was 30-odd years ago now, and although it was just a regular state secondary it had a really good music department, school orchestra etc. Turns out I have it.

It’s not always a good thing - doesn’t mean you’re talented, just that you have a sensitive ear. I am a decent musician, but I’m really bad at sight singing and sight reading because I’m really bad at the rhythm side. My friend in my A-level music class was the opposite and my music teacher said if we were one person we’d do a perfect job.

The thing I hate about it is that I’m really intolerant to notes that aren’t perfect. If I’m at a concert and the singer goes slightly flat I can’t bear it. I had to move seats at a wedding once because I was sat between two people who couldn’t sing. So in some ways it’s a blessing and a curse!

could the piano be out of tune?

Surely the test would be "sing me a C" and see if she gets it correct.

Or play a note and ask her what it is.

I taught a trumpet player once with perfect pitch and he coped fine. He just accepted that what he played wasn't what he heard. He was/is a bit of a musical genius though.

And he is ASD too!!

I understand that everyone is born with it but not many retain it. DC1 has although it isn't that useful other than in aural tests and can be an absolute pain if working in different keys and pitches. Both DH and DD2 have taught themselves to recognise specific notes (DD an A and DH a D) and use relative pitch around that. Fortunately since my first study was a transposing instrument I don't have it.

eroica your post made me laugh as DC said the first question Chets asked in her aural was if she had perfect pitch - they have separate sets of aural tests for those with and those without.

Ds also has ASD.

We suspected Ds had perfect pitch but weren’t sure if it was relative. We were chatting to the owner of a music store and he brought up this computer programme that generated random notes and chords but played clusters In between to prevent points of reference.

Unfortunately I have no idea what it was called.

Ds also has synasthesia and it’s quite common for the two things to go together

I was also about to say relative pitch is more useful as you can do the intervals correctly. So use a tuner to tune the first string then hear if the others are in tune from the interval. My friend had perfect pitch and it actually annoys her sometimes! Join the music thread for lots more music chat, no question too daft, plenty of musical and non musical parents.

The teacher sounds lovely if she’s making the lessons so fun. Your daughter’s perfect pitch will be a blessing, though I think your theory about it causing her low tolerance for certain noises makes sense!

FWIW my daughter goes to a specialist music school and says less than half of her classmates have perfect pitch. She doesn't but has trained herself to recognise and reproduce the open string notes of her instrument for fun (they're an odd lot!).
They sound like a great lot!

Most musicians will tend to develop relative pitch and can identify notes from a particular frame of reference. I can name most notes because of how they compare to an A for orchestral tuning, even without hearing the A for reference.

Perfect pitch is really rare, but sometimes people with a well developed sense of relative pitch will say they have perfect pitch.

I don’t think it’s daunting and it’s just important you feel she has the right teacher to nurture her enthusiasm if she’s enjoying it? I definitely lean on DS’ wonderful teachers and have enjoyed picking up a bit of the recorder myself on the way but I certainly don’t keep up or feel any responsibility myself! Is she younger?

I have just realised I should have written 'produce', not 'reproduce' .