Music Junior Programs

I have been through this before. Reading this thread makes me feel I am going through the experience again - so exciting.

When we did, RCMJD was the only place with staged auditions and it was required only for piano and violin. It sounds like Guildhall does it now as the second interviews were mentioned a couple of times on here. Is it for all the instruments?

In regard to the value of the money, as others said it really depends on what is available in your area and whether you have the right network/connection already. Some people may feel they would do better without JD. It's not just money but also for more flexibilities to more precise individual needs. Though, I think JD can be a great one-stop-shop and logistically a great life-saver for many busy families.

Were delighted that DD had just got an offer for JD. Looking at this thread, there's loads of things I hadn't even thought about. I'm so used to the teacher coming to the house it will be really strange not to have that contact. I didn't even know some places let you sit in on lessons. ( DD would hate that but I can hear plenty from the other room in normal times). We won't have a choice of teacher either as timetables not finalised til August. I think I'm just so glad she will get to play with others who love music as much as her. I knew she would finish with current teachers, that is part of the reason for applying but she will still see current teacher as he is involved in the JD but he is not a specialist in her instrument, hence the need for a new teacher. Exciting times for everyone.

@dinosaurinmybelly Congrats on the offers! I think really only you can decide whether it's good value for money. It's such a personal decision. It's what you think your DC will get out of it that they're not getting now.

On the overall vfm, as someone else has already pointed out, it's not actually that much more than year-round lessons on two instruments. And yet they're getting all the amazing ensemble, choir, orchestra and musicianship training as well. And for those deciding between RAM PA and Guildhall, it's worth noting that although RAM PA is half the cost of Guildhall, it's also half the hours of tuition: Guildhall is 5.5 hours of core teaching, RAM PA is 3. The pro rata cost is the same at both of them. So if someone's main issue is cost overall, then maybe RAM PA is a better fit for now. If cost isn't the issue, I think the deciding factors are instrument teacher, whether you want a full day at Guildhall or just an afternoon at RAM, and the culture of each institution. We really like that Guildhall feels v collaborative with parents, whereas that doesn't seem to be the case so much at RAM (we were told explicitly by RAM that parents can never sit in on lessons, whereas at Guildhall we were told it's actively encouraged). In the absence of any of us being able to visit any of the conservatoires, I think you just have to go with your gut feeling.

We are an exception to this. We have had a team teaching approach on my child's first study for the last year and it's one that everyone has enthusiastically agreed to continuing for the future because they all know each other and work well as a team. But it's been made abundantly clear that there's a new boss of the team!

Oh yes, my understanding is that you absolutely must cease all other lessons once you start at the JD. This was a big consideration for us as we like our current teachers. I believe you can have a taster with some of the JD teachers before deciding who the best fit is though...

yes keeping a regular second teacher is very frowned up one - in fact explicitly not slowed at RAM JD. but i know people do sometimes secretly do so. it rarely ends well - it’s a small
world- and puts the child in a very difficult position of effectively concealing the truth and different approaches etc .

When we moved from GH to specialist school my single biggest concern was moving on from DD's wonderful teacher. I asked if we could keep seeing him for holiday lessons. He was the one that actually said no, as much as he'd like to, it wasn't fair to anyone and DD needed to fully commit to the relationship with her new teacher. He was absolutely right of course. She now has the most wonderful relationship with her fantastic new teacher. We do also stay in touch with previous teacher and he keeps us informed of courses and masterclasses that he is teaching on. She is going to Austria to attend a masterclass course with him later this year (Covid permitting!!).

In my experience most teachers are generally not keen on co-teaching unless it's with a colleague they are used to working with or there is pedagogical input from a master teacher. I do know a couple of examples of 'team teaching' but it's quite rare. In fact, the JD's might even insist you give up current teacher.

It seems there is quite a degree of consensus around the relative merits of Primary Academy vs Jr Guildhall as follows:

PA: especially sensitive to needs of younger children, smaller and more intimate, nicer building, better location for most, cheaper fees, shorter hours (might be more friendly to younger children and their shorter attention span)
Jr Guildhall: entry onto Music Course, more advanced programme, more involvement in choice of teacher and more transparency up front (i.e. pre-decision) in that regard, no need to re-audition for high school.
Both: good teachers, good culture, lovely atmosphere, opportunity to spend time with other children who like music (and have an aptitude for it) and to make new friends.

Am I missing anything?

From my perspective, while the merits of PA were more in my mind before we received the offers, I have been so impressed by everything at Guildhall and we are now leaining in that direction.

On the question of value for money, I think that when you take into account the existing cost of lessons (at least in London), it isn't adding that much to switch to the JD programmes. It is a lot of money but it is also a special opportunity. That being said, if your child is already getting most of what is offered without paying such fees, the position may be different and no doubt plenty of talented children have all sorts of opportunities in music without going to a JD.

Thank you so much for your response doesanybodyhaveamap. It’s really helpful.

Hello @dinosaurinmybelly and congratulations on receiving offers!
It is a massive financial commitment and potentially long term too. Our son was 14, had just left a national ensemble due to being too old, done Grade 8, had very little opportunity at school and was encouraged to do so by his amazing instrumental teacher, who felt it was the right time to move on. For us, it was all about him mixing with peers of a comparable standard, getting the breadth of ensembles and, above all, confirming in his own mind that he wanted to be a professional musician.
Only you know whether it's worth it at this stage. If your child has ensemble opportunities and is thriving with their teacher then I would probably say that it wouldn't be such good value at the moment. It also depends on the instrument. With woodwind and brass children tend to mature slightly later. Also consider whether going at a younger age might mean that later on your child might tire of it. For us it has 100% been good value, as it was clearly the next step for ds and he loved it from the day he went to audition. The experience and opportunities weren't available anywhere else and they were our chief reasons for sending him there, plus, of course, his own drive and motivation.
I suppose what I'm saying is that it was obvious in every way that it was the right thing to do at that age and the eye-watering cost has provided him with great lessons, an orchestra and other chamber ensembles, theory and composition and the opportunity to mix with other teenagers like him.

Hi @dinosaurinmybelly congratulations on the offers! Like you, we didn't qualify for any bursary support when DD was at GH. However there are some charitable trusts out there that will give grants without taking into account your personal finances. It does take a bit of time trawling through the charity commission pages but for us it was worth it.

In terms of value for money, my personal view is JD's offer so much more than just ensembles. The quality of teaching is obviously excellent, but you may have brilliant teacher(s) anyway so again this might not be the draw. Being immersed in advanced music making on a weekly basis and surrounded by like minded people is a wonderful experience. Also, realising that although you may be talented and very advanced there are others who are just as good, and many who are even better is very grounding. The message that no matter how good you are, hard work and commitment are needed to maximise potential is an important one. However it's also hugely inspirational being surrounded by amazingly accomplished young musicians!

The whole JD environment is very special and I don't think you can recreate that anywhere else really.

But it depends what you/your child want and the motivations for looking at junior departments as the next step I guess.

Hello - we have also just received offers from RAM and Guildhall for DD. They both sound amazing, but I'm concerned about the fees. We're not in a position to get support with the fees, so please excuse a genuine question - do you feel that it is good value for money for a 10-yr-old child who does have ensemble opportunities already?

missscotland we knew from working with some of them in workshops etc, mentoring with another. Trial lesson before we committed to school. Website has info sometimes too. But for my child's instrument it's not like there's a range of options in each place, so it needed to be a good fit.

hi DD is at JD - we didn’t know any teachers before applying and went with their recommendations. worked out perfectly. unless you have recommendations/knowledge, i think it can be work out well to trust the jd to match. but if concerned you can ask for taster lessons.

If it weren't for covid, my DD would have been at RAM pa this year. The tutor for her instrument was largely the draw, along with the enthusiasm of the director and the general vibe of the place and programme. For a long time, we thought it was RCMJD would be all of our number 1 but "go where the right teacher is" was key advice for us. But I think we'd have loved any of them. As its turned out, we've chosen vocational school instead for a variety of reasons.

Well done your little one getting the offers

@MissScotland
It's French Horn.

There are very occasionally rehearsals on a Sunday at Guildhall, depending on the instrument and ensemble. For my ds that means an overnight stay with relatives (or it used to in pre-Covid times) as we live a very long way away and even with a high -speed train journey, it's 2.5 hours. He uses the time (or, please God, will use the time) to do school work.
It's worth considering when you would be prepared for your child to go alone, if they should continue there. A 25 minute car journey will look very different as an independent tube journey in a couple of years' time.
Personally I loved the vibe at Guildhall when ds went for his audition. It's vibrant and the staff take the safe-guarding aspect very seriously. We once had a very small issue during remote learning and they were super-quick at sorting it and really went the extra mile to put things right with warmth and friendliness.