Music Junior Programs

Hi all, just see this thread and will appreciate some help. DS is invited to audition for JD of RCM and Guildhall. His first instrument is piano. Wondering any mamas can share experience what could be expected during the audition? DS hasn’t done any audition before though he is grade 8. We only know there will be aural test and scales and arpeggios, but really don’t know how to prepare this. So any advice would be appreciated!

@doesanybodyhaveamap @horseymum. Thank you! Think at least she shall give a try. Even if not be able to get there, at least she can learn where the gap is

Absolutely right @horseymum the experience of going for these things definitely teaches resilience. DD has certainly had a bumpy road - a no for NCO actually set her off on a path to a JD (where she was on a competitive instrument and I thought didn't stand much chance) and later on to specialist school. You never know who will spot their potential and what doors will open, even from a tough rejection...

She may be disappointed but you don't know until you try. Also, it's good to think in terms of the following if she doesn't get in a)she may not be good enough yet so try again b) she may have been good enough but someone else was better, try again next year c)it's a good experience preparing for the audition and interview anyway. If it's in person it will probably be a lovely piano, nice room etc! They might give you advice on what to think about for next time. Does her teacher have experience of getting children into a junior department?
My dd didn't get into a national youth orchestra till her third try ( then it was covid so only online after all that!) There's lots of joy in music but also times when they have to pick themselves up and try again another time.

@MissScotland @doesanybodyhaveamap @Jovanka @horseymum. You all are so helpful! Thank you so much for sharing your experience and advice! I was wondering whether I was leading DD to a path doomed to be disappointed but really want to give a try now!

I can vaguely remember reading somewhere - I think it might have been RCMJD - that if the standard on the 2nd instrument isn’t quite there yet then that won’t jeopardise a potential offer on first study only - or wording something like that.

But now I can’t find anything like that on their website so it may have been on the application form itself.

I would think she'll stand a good chance at that standard at 9. As horsey says, a lot of it at 9 is about potential. If I remember correctly, the OP @MissScotland DD was a similar level on piano and only a little ahead in her second instrument when she applied and she got snapped up by all of the London colleges.

They all have very different atmospheres, so do as much research as you can and try and get to open days etc too.

Good luck!

We're in Scotland but lots of people on the music thread have DC at English places.

@horseymum. Thank you so much for your feedback! Sorry if you don’t mind, can I know which junior program your DC is at? Try to see if DD stands a chance but not sure which institution would be more focused on potential and which will be more interested in candidates with established skills and experience. Thank you!

I wouldn't have thought it would but you could maybe ask on the music thread for wider comments. Where we are, some students are definitely a much lower level on their second instrument. There will probably be an interview too, where she can talk about what she enjoys etc. We had to do it recorded but they may be live now.

@horseymum thank you so much! We would prefer she could learn both instruments at the same place. However we are not sure if her current cello level will negatively impact her application for the main instrument…

Hi, I would have thought she stands a good chance although I know piano is quite competitive so some places may not be able to take all the pianists over grade 6 for example as they need to balance the numbers for ensembles.
Some places ask for a minimum standard; others say they look for potential. It usually costs more to do two instruments but it is more convenient to have everything in the one place for us. My dd was grade 6 on both instruments when she applied if that helps. Happy to answer any other questions or join the spring music thread, it's very friendly.

Just came cross this post and would appreciate views to see if my DD (aged 9 and year 5) stands a chance for junior programs? She is practicing piano (passed grade 6 with distinction & grade 5 theory with distinction) and cello (just started less a year so only grade 2). Not sure if it’s good idea to put cello as second instrument given her current level? Thanks

Just read about this amazing boy who attends Junior Guildhall. How fabulous!

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/05/nhs-staff-perform-thank-you-piece-composed-by-six-year-old-boy

we had good news on Friday, both 7yo DS (cello) and 9yo DD (violin) accepted into the Junior Trinity strings programme, yay! They are super chuffed and excited. am panicking a bit about the logistics however as their class hours are different (DS 9-12 and DD 11-3pm). anyone else in this boat?

so we decided to go for it, and both DS (cello) and DD (violin) have submitted audition videos for Junior Trinity string time. the deadline was Monday. anyone else waiting for news?

Joxie it came as quite a shock both to her and her parents!

I've always dinned into my children and pupils that music is a privilege and not a competition - sad but very true. Mine have always preferred collaborative work to solo performance though so sometimes they can be a bit too chilled.

@Londonmummy66 - amazing! there are some terrifyingly talented children out there! . Wonder how your friend with the grade 8 and top NCO spot felt when she met the LTCL girl? Hopefully, inspired!

There's always someone better than you....We consistently tell our children it's not a competition with other children, but a 'race' within yourself to see how well you can do with what you have. That, and learning from people even better than you. FWIW, my daughter is very quick academically and can do very well with little exertion. Music is the thing that makes her slow down, unpick everything, practise, think, adjust, practise, refine... You have to be tenacious!

@LuluKentGirl I think that your DD is in with a chance if she continues to progress. DO remember that JDs will be looking not only at potential but also how long children have been learning. Someone who turns up at 10 with Grade 5 only having learned for 18 months is going to be of at least as much (if not more) interest than someone with Grade 7 who has been learning since they were in nappies - and there are lots of those!!

@Joxie - I know someone who got a music scholarship to CLSG at 11+ - she was already well past Grade 8 and in a top spot at NCO. She expected to be the number 1 for music in her year until she was introduced to her fellow music scholar - who had gained LTCL at the tender age of 10.....

@Joxie, I am sorry about your DD's experience at RAM and glad to hear she found her place at Guildhall. Just let me defend RCMJD as my DS went RCMJD and had a very happy time there. He auditioned at 9 and at the time he hadn't done any exams and didn't know how to play all the scales on the instrument he auditioned for, so he was nowhere near a finished musician. RAM and RCM seem to carry this highly pressurised, cold and snobby image but at least it was not our experience (I know DCs who attend at RAM too). Your DD found her happy place, not because one is better but because one suits her better which is great and that's what we all need to find for our DCs. I agree each institution has its own atmosphere but whether it appears to be friendly would also depend on the receivers and how it's taken.

@MissScotland - about music scholarships at the 11+ - just been through this process. I don't think it's worth the time taken from exam prep, because a) 11+ to me is more important b)the financial amount awarded by the scholarship is small - 5% of fees or free music lessons c) there may be substantial opportunity cost in that music scholarship obligations prevent you doing other extracurrics d) you can still get involved in the music scene in any case even as a non-scholarship student

There was one school (CLSG) which has outstanding music that we thought my daughter would benefit from (given she goes to Guildhall). We auditioned (unsuccessfully). There's a first round video submission, then they invite you for in-person second round audition. When I asked the school for feedback I was told the girls who were invited for second round had grade 8 in the primary instrument, and someone else told me one child with 4 (yes four) grade 8 distinctions (!!!) was not called back! (How do you achieve 4 grade 8 (let alone distinction!) by the age of 10??)

@MissScotland - we were never in the primary academy of RAM (that was the one that she had the bad audition for!) and so never in the junior academy of RAM.

Unashamed plug for Junior Guildhall - it is a happy school, kids go round looking like they are having fun and being cheeky! (OK cannot comment on this year given COVID disruptions). We went through three years of First Strings Experience at the Royal Academy with my other child (reception year onwards) and just by looking at the 9,10, 11, 12, 13, 14 etc year old floating around the RAM cafeteria and building, they looked stressed and not cheeky anymore!

I think it's a healthier and more inclusive attitude for kids to have fun, play together, and work hard, continue loving music, rather than aim to be the very top (which will be very few) and then have a crisis if you are not (which will be the vast majority of people). My daughter is grade 7 in her instrument and also in the NCO. She does have fun and she does work hard which is all I can ask as a parent right now!

We also looked at RCM, similar impression to RAM in that they wanted a nearly finished musician.... (which to me smacks of not wanting to put in the hard work teaching a child, just want to claim credit for the end product). We didn't look at Trinity because it is too far to get to.

Hello everyone! My daughter is in Junior Guildhall and is happy with her instrument teacher (you need to be proactive and try to get to know the likely teachers; we basically said who we wanted to study with and there was a vacancy so it worked out).

Two comments about RAM - The primary academy programme is shorter than the other JD's, so much so that we wouldn't have gone for audition if I had got my act together and realised in time! For example, orchestra is only 30 mins - hardly any time at all considering time taken to unpack instruments, find music etc. Secondly, the audition was an awful experience for my daughter. She played her pieces well but during sight reading, they didn't have music for her instrument and said Oh you read violin music don't you? and plonked it in front of her. There were notes that would have been very high for violin (like 3 or 4 lines above the stave) let alone her instruments. The member of staff stood a foot behind my daughter, breathing heavily, interrupting to say "was that a c sharp?!" in the middle! This unkind and off putting attitude from someone who was quite personable when I chatted to her previously was a shock. The comments that came back in the letter (she did not get an offer) criticised some finer points about her bow control; I think they want finished musicians rather than a very talented 9 year old who had only been playing her instrument for a year....! I have been told the Royal Academy is better for the older years, but seems unfriendly for the littler ones.