Music in schools

Norm around here is that all primaries seem to have a choir and there are borough wide choir events. All primaries would have music lessons (to varying degrees of quality I guess ) and that’s where it ends. Any extras depend on enthusiasm and expertise of individual staff members. Eg. The free guitar club at my dcs school stopped when that teacher left

Unless you chose a private school, I don't think you are going to find the same level of music opportunities of a few decades or more back. I remember playing in a fantastic orchestra at junior school with pretty much every instrument represented. There was also a wind band, brass band, various string ensembles, choir and lots and lots of concerts. The music provision at my kids' primary has improved since they joined when recorder or guitar were the only options. There are brilliant visiting teachers from the county music service who do whole class lessons and individual instrument lessons on brass and woodwind (no strings), but no ensembles or orchestra. My DD is in year 5 and grade 3 on her instrument and desperate to play with others. I am thinking of contacting the local private school to see if she could possibly join their after school orchestra. Outside chance I know but maybe with their charitable status it ticks a box for them. Worth a go.

My kids’ primary school has an orchestra purely because a mum set it up forty years ago, and continued to run it until she (sadly) died. She also taught all the children the recorder for a year, so they all learnt to read the treble clef at least a little, and she did after school groups for those who were keen to take it further. A few years ago, she knew she was dying, and set up a small charitable foundation that now funds a conductor (usually a student studying music) once a week for an hour. Every child can join, but they’re reliant on children having private music lessons for anything beyond percussion - there’s a few recorders, a couple of violins, one clarinet, and an awful lot of triangles. And some adult volunteers on the piano and various other instruments.

The school supplements this with a teacher who does music and French when class teachers aren’t around (presumably PPA - it works out at about one afternoon a week). She also runs a choir. But none of these involve reading music - it’s all based around the interactive whiteboard.

I think this is probably quite a lot for primary school music - but nothing like enough to give a decent musical grounding on its own. The local music service offers lessons in school, but in very few instruments (piano, guitar, possibly violin) and they aren’t cheap.

Some of the encouraging examples here confirm that where there is a will there is a way. Clearly in some schools there is no will to provide a good music education. I think there is some research somewhere that many primary teachers don't feel confident in teaching music (if I remember rightly, the three most dreaded subjects were music, PE and ICT).

I don't think it's just about funding. My children had an appalling music education at primary and they are now in their early 20s, so there was more money around when they were at school.

I was a music co-ordinator in a junior school for 25 years. I ran a choir, recorder clubs and what I called an orchestra which was a mish- mash of recorders, flutes,clarinets, keyboards, the odd violin, percussion and any other instrument that turned up- I used to write all my own arrangements too specific to the abilities of the children. The children were from relatively deprived backgrounds but we had a reputation in the area as being a school that was known for music. This was all in my own time and no specialist teachers involved.

This was on top of being head of a specialist provision and a fairly hefty teaching timetable.

Oh and only worked 3 days a week. The separate infants and juniors amalgamated and the head then expected me to take on the music responsibility for KS1 too.😡

In the end it just got too much for me and I moved schools and no longer teach music.

Music in primary schools is generally hugely neglected and many I visit in the specialist role I now have do almost no music and what many schools do is woefully inadequate. Shame people in charge of education don't take note of this

We were also lucky with Primary provision, totally accidentally. Amazing choir and free group recorder tuition for anyone who wanted for 4 years. Music service teachers had to be paid for though.

Primary school orchestra had everything from recorders to tubas depending on what DC played! Recorders meant it was very inclusive as any DC prepared to practice and go to rehearals could play. It is still the same.

The teacher leading orchestra and choir is amazing,

Orchestra is quite hard unless you teach the whole spectrum of instruments - and are good at crowd control. Our state primary has a string ensemble, brass band and choir - but no orchestra because it would probably be like herding cats with all those instruments at once.

My dd2's main instrument is wind, which isn't catered for, so she took up a string instrument specifically so she could be in an ensemble.

We also have a choir with a teacher who comes in, free peripetic lessons for all PP children, and singing assemblies each week, as well as a specialist music teacher once a week. Almost every child I know from primary who has gone up to the variety of local secondaries has taken GCSE music, and those who have got that far have picked A-Level. We're very lucky!

That's true, it's sad that music is undervalued. I just feel like even though I dislike history, I know I have to teach it and get on with it. People shouldn't train to be teachers if they don't want to teach all subjects.

In this school parents would receive curriculum overviews sent home including key objectives that would be covered that term, music was on there but teachers were open about the fact that they weren't teaching any of the music.

Interesting to hear your experience Blue Waves. My experience of primary school is what you mentioned, that senior leadership push sats only. One teacher is allocated music, and gets to circulate round the classes, and younger teachers who want to do music with kids are not allowed.

I can totally imagine if you didnt do much music through school yourself, as a teacher with no underpinning knowledge, you might shy away from it, just like some teachers shy away from MFL and I'm sure there are other subjects too.

I guess part of the problem is the one year pgce course which prepares NQT’s so inadequately.

I think it can depend on having at least one member of staff know is enthusiastic about music.

I'm a governor at a state primary. We have a fabulous TA who took in the choir when the last teacher left - she has now revamped the whole music curriculum, organised choir trips to large London venues, small concerts at residential homes etc.

But even she doesn't have the resources to start an orchestra. Luckily, the local music hub organises group concerts, and open days in school hours, but you still have to organise private lessons and regular ensemble stuff yourselves.

Happy to correct 'a lot of teachers' to 'some teachers' if that helps.

@Bluewavescrashing is right to a degree - less not bothering, but more underconfidence. As a specialist music teacher I can understand this - it is difficult to teach music if you don't feel confident so it is easy to barely deliver or not do at all.
Early years and KS1 teachers are usually more up for it as it is mostly singing but beyond that it's much harder to find evidence of good practise.

I used to do a lot of training for non specialist primary music but budgets don't reach anymore .

Sorry @thistly but I'm a teacher, in my last school most teachers were very reluctant to teach music and some, not all, never taught it.

Senior leadership were far too worried about sats results to push it. They literally didn't care. One of the reasons I left that school. I believe it happens in other schools too.

It really pissed me off to be honest that these teachers thought it wasn't their job to teach music. In the absence of a music specialist, which is a good solution but expensive, they moaned they didn't understand music and so rarely or never taught it.

Blue waves crashing.
I think that is a sore misunderstanding of the educational climate in the UK today.
Primary teachers do not decide ‘oh I won’t bother to teach this lot music’ for whatever reason.
Their every session is scheduled by the leadership team, and most primary teachers have very little autonomy about what and how they teach.
The way our schools deliver education is the interpretation of the head and governors of the national curriculum in the way that they see will most likely to appease ofsted.

You may have meant to say ‘most primary schools don't bother to teach music’ which is nearer the mark.
But don’t paint primary teachers as being the ones who don’t bother.

Rant over.

A lot of primary teachers don't bother to teach music at all. It's shocking.

DCs state school has a huge orchestra, recorder ensembles in each year group, a choir, a separate Head of Music teacher. Every child learns recorder for 4 years and keyboard for 2. There’s guitar club and lots of visiting musicians. All that is free. Theres 5 different visiting peri teachers, from the county service who also offer lots of ensembles etc for a minimal cost.

It’s the exception not the norm around here to have quite that much provision for sure and it’s a large part of why we picked this school. It makes me so cross that this isn’t how every school is, they deserve the funding to do this.

Primary music is woefully inadequate at most state primaries. The money isn't there and it can't be justified. It has a knock on effect for uptake and attainment at secondary and we can start to see this now in the hugely reduced numbers opting for GCSE and A level.
I'm a school music teacher and feel very sad to see this decline. Currently I'm the private sector where I can confidently keep my job for the time being!

The situation is a bit sad these days, especially if you grew up in the days when music in schools was better. But a choir is still better than nothing and recorder groups are useful for learning basic music theory. Maybe you could do lessons in school and then go to the local music service for ensembles. Saves having to do it all outside of school. I'm sitting in our local music centre right now listening to band practice having been here several times already this week. Have been involved for 7 years now (kids are in their teens now) and it's absolutely the best thing ever - kids have a great time and have made lots of friends. Thank goodness these places exist.

Most schools do individual music lessons by getting peri teachers in or through the county music service where it exists (some exist in a very different way to how they used to).

I think expecting an orchestra etc in a primary school and being concerned about it age 3 makes your expectations way out of what's typical.Usually there's ensembles for primary children through the council/county service, but they tend to start from year 3 upwards.

Our county music service provides peri teachers in school both primary and secondary. They also offer whole class lessons which some schools do depending on school budgets. There are few primary music teachers these days so lots depends on what staff they have. Even if they currently have lots going on, all it takes is the one teacher who can play piano to leave and suddenly there is nothing! But the county service has groups for 3 yr + at their centres instead. Have a look at what your area provides first.

State primary schools rarely have orchestras etc. Simply don't have the funding.

Best bet is a county music hub. Ours does Saturday groups for infant school age, progressing onto the junior Saturday morning group. They try different instruments and then progress through the different ensemble groups, finishing with the county youth orchestra.

Standard is far higher than at any primary I know. Where are you in the country?

Sadly, I would say unusual to have an orchestra in primary school these days - some do, but a small proportion I would say. (Even becoming less normal in secondary schools tbh!) Most seem to have some sort of choir though. Instrumental lessons vary hugely and will usually have associated costs.

Look into county music service - even if they don't currently deliver lessons in the school that's not to say they won't if there's a child that wants to learn. You may start something...

Adding a note of caution though... school lessons not usually very effective for very young kids. Teachers can only write limited lesson notes (because we'd all rather they were actually teaching rather than scribbling, right!?) and the little ones don't usually retain that much of what happens in the lesson... if you want to start her young, probably best to try and find a private teacher so you can be involved in lessons and support practice at home.

@RedskyLastNight - it is through the county music service and it may be different in her school as it runs from nursery right up to year 6. Only school I have any experience of in recent years so maybe it is unusual. Thinking back, maybe the younger children aren't involved.