January to March 2019 music thread (Title edited by MNHQ)

I think children does diploma etc are ones who dont go to music schools so they could still have some kind of well structured music learning. We havent had music exams for a long time so for us the grades exams are ticked boxes for her to have various areas of her music checked(rather than just playing pieces or focusing on a particular technique).

Nelius that makes more sense actually. You are more than likely right, i only know stories after they become famous. I'll add that to my knowledge.

You are also right about time passing quickly, I can't believe my baby is all grown up at 15. It seems yesterday she was starting primary school, it is scary.

Boyskeepswinging, thanks for your kind post about how I can help DS see other career options. He used to spend 1/3 time of a year in a country totally different from England. He still goes back at least once a year and generally travels well since he was three months old (!). That seems to have helped him gain very flexible and wider views towards the world we live. I will do the same for his career/study options, letting him see what's out there, and hopefully it will help him discover what he really wants in life when he is a young man.

Scarily time passes by so quickly. He is still very young but I fear seeing him as a young man is not so far away...

If my memory is correct the car accident happened when he was 15 or 16 so the more than 10 hours practice story was a way before he became famous. I think his sleeping daytime and playing at night (and lots of drugs) lifestyle started when he moved to N.Y and worsened as he became successful... But anyway, that's all I know and I might have read some made-up stories about the legend!

neleus

I think there are so many stories about the great Jazz greats, we have quite a few collected over the years.
They were mostly drug addicts though, and the 10 hours practice that is reported rarely happened.
They slept most of the day, had a blow at night and then played during the night as well. Coltrane and Art Pepper are also good reads if you can find any.

Ito practice, mine does quite a lot that would equate to about 3/4 hours a day, but it's just the way the school works. It's much easier if you can start at 7.30 and don't have to worry about travel time to school or neighbours. Then of course there are opportunities during the evening too. Weekends can be more or less than the 4 hours depending on what they have on.
Conservatoires look for the same as the music schools.
Primarily it's somebody they can work with, shows promise, is committed and dedicated. Here again they aren't looking for a finished product. They look at some of what you have done musically, if you've played with many ensembles, taken part in competitions, your musical profile throughout school.
I'm told they can tell straight away whether you'll fit in, within the first few minutes.
We have friends who teach and take auditions, and it's generally what they say.

Also, how you cope with mistakes, they observe your general personality, they don't want perfectionists, they want people who can lead well (if a leading instrument).

Romany, Charlie Parker infamously practised more than 10 hours a day before the fatal car accident that triggered his life long addiction so I don't think his stamina was purely due to the Coke!

Herts

I know a DC who did grade 8 piano in Y4 term 3 then ATCL in Y6 term 3. People thought next would be diploma. But she joined music school in Y7 (this academic year) then now no plan of any further exams. So..., you know what I'm saying...?

Some find exams a great motivator, some find the contents interesting or useful, some need proof of their ability on paper, etc. So Exams are great. But it doesn't sit well for everyone and not everyone needs it. And, as your DS says, certainly you don't need it for music college entry. Not at all.

We also know people who are doing 3-4 hours practise a day, every day. My daughter isn’t one of those. She loves art and composing and playing other instruments too. And seeing friends. And cooking. I wonder whether the conservatoires want somone with personality and other instruments or who just single-mindedly pursue excellence...

Well I think they want excellence in the principal area of study above all else although I guess that could encompass different things (technique, performance personality, etc). However, depends a bit on the course/principal area of study. If trying to get into RCM to study violin against a huge number of amazing violinists then playing saxophone or composition or broader personality probably doesn't help much. However, if say trying to get into Guildhall to study composition or electronic music then while still need to have an amazing composition portfolio maybe having broader experience is also useful.

boyskeep I know. But she doesn’t really know where and what conservatories are. Or what is involved. When I grew up in the UK, we would pop into the RNCM to flute open days and go to concerts etc. whereas she has no frame of reference. And she is a bit of a worrier.

I also am highly aware of the industry. I think she is more likely to go into producing or composing tbh. We are just in the process of setting up the spare bedroom as a home recording studio. That would have been megabucks when I grew up!

so there’s no popping into the conservatoire or contacting Chethams. So for her she has to make a decision without all the guidance
You don't need to physically visit them for guidance. Email works just as well!

My Dd wants to go into music. She has an excellent ear, composes, arranges and plays and sings. So for her the ATCL was a natural next step. She has all the diploma planned out, and feels they’ll be the right extensions as she decides which way she is going in music.

We aren’t living in the UK currently, so there’s no popping into the conservatoire or contacting Chethams. So for her she has to make a decision without all the guidance. I’m a big believer in hard work AND the paperwork and so many people are chasing places. It’s hard.

We also know people who are doing 3-4 hours practise a day, every day. My daughter isn’t one of those. She loves art and composing and playing other instruments too. And seeing friends. And cooking. I wonder whether the conservatoires want somone with personality and other instruments or who just single-mindedly pursue excellence...

What advice do his music teachers have? Presumably they've got a few children into music college recently? You could phone music colleges' admissions teams and ask them if having the pieces of paper helps or if it is simply on the audition. I'm sure they would be more than happy to advise you - this question must come up all the time. At least then you'd know?!

Yes clutched at those straws already :) He seems to think if you go for an audition at music college irrelevant whether you have grade 8 or diploma if you play brilliantly (which of course in his mind he is convinced he will.....)

Herts Expensive, yes, but less effort than grades as for Trinity you're just playing the pieces. No more scales, aural, sight reading ... As I say, my boy was already playing several pieces on the Trinity list anyway so he thought why not?

Have you pointed out to your DS that you get UCAS points for grades 6, 7 or 8? Would that help as a motivator?!

Thirdfiddle - true just like any other grade i guess. I haven't looked into much but just seems like a lot more effort and expense than the normal grades.

Boyskeepswinging sounds like your DS has a good attitude. I have tried the "why not just get the piece of paper" argument with DS even on grade 8 to no avail.

Genuine question but why do people want to take diploma?
My DS has been playing pieces at diploma standard for some time now so his view is why not get the piece of paper to acknowledge that? It was his decision to do G8 as well, we've never pushed that side of things. Which is why I had no idea about the dress code

Herts, why do people take any grades? They like a challenge, they like the sense of achievement, good for focussing on a programme? A lot of people will take preparing a diploma as an excuse for giving an actual solo recital too, which might take more of a kick for those outside music schools/junior colleges. A friend did one as an adult amateur to give her a focus for lessons and practice. In my case though, I suspect teacher gave me an exam to do when she thought I wasn't practising enough!

shaky
I think the Coke had a lot to do with Bird's stamina, tbh.
There are some wonderful stories about him being thrown out of Birdland
I love hearing the stories of the Jazz greats, though. They all led terrible lives, not something I'd wish for my dd.
I find it hard tbh, at times. Once they start reading biographies themselves.
Mine was even shocked reading about Janet Baker (opera singer)

Genuine question but why do people want to take diploma? Maybe I just hadn't realised before but I seem to see a lot of people taking it. Is it just a natural progression and something to enjoy and tick off or something more? I had enough trouble getting my DS to take grade 8 (taken on one instrument kicking and screaming a bit when he could probably do on three or four) and he is of the view that if you go to music college and perform at a high level in the end it doesn't matter. My other children have taken grade 8 but no real interest in diploma and music will only ever be a hobby for them. I guess maybe useful if you don't go to music college but want to prove high level?

And Shaky, thanks so much for sharing and heads up on diploma, indeed, everything is so costly. We had to cancel the violin lesson today because they are both sick, the only good thing is I wont have to pay for it(we pay for each lesson).

I dont know anyone who is working as a doctor or having children doing medicine, most of the time none of us knowing what they are heading to, in whatever the direction I agree work ethic is the most important. We have to trust the schools, the kids decisions for their future, to me whatever she is doing, try not to do it half heartedly(and lesson for me to learn via 11+ that what ever she doesnt like, want to do, she also shows it in the interview with intention of deliberately fail it, there is something to think and learn for the future from the parents perspective). To be honest, learning about human, cancer researching, coding and computer science, space etc...all might have nothing to do with music however life without music isnt as great, definitely life with being able to play music is a better life.

We are back from our holiday and all suddenly sick like dogs while London is so sunny and beautiful so full rest for us today(and loads of laundry for me) then hopefully could be back to school/work as normal tomorrow (hopefully).

I've just thought that my previous post was unnecessarily sexist. I only referred to a musical "boy" because both Neleus and I have sons, but of course all these musical careers are also available to girls. I should have said musical "child" and I apologise if I caused any offence - it was not intended

Currently I am letting him enjoy the world of his dream without any worry though
Absolutely, why stress about it? If he is getting a rounded musical education part of that will include being taught the reality of a life as a professional musician. And that will help him to decide. But, yes, do introduce him to the huge variety of careers out there. And of course a career in music isn't just being a performer or teacher, there are so many paths to follow like orchestral management, administration, finance, stage/venue management, all the techie jobs like acoustics, sound management, production ... It can do no harm to open his eyes to the options a musical boy can have in life.

Boyskeep, DS wanted to be a footballer, astronaut, novelist, etc... Music became important only a couple years ago. He isn't still not that single minded and isn't very aware of the competition and hardship. He doesn't really announce whether he wants a music career specifically, simply because thinking of a future career seems to be still so far away for him. He is just a child who enjoys and thinks music all the time. He even sings in sleep! His world will stop turning if it's taken away, now.

Every time I hear all those single minded, set their heart on music since very little etc stories, I feel he may not be as driven as he should be therefore it's my responsibility to introduce him to the wider world and help him redirect his path before too late. Currently I am letting him enjoy the world of his dream without any worry though.

Hard to be a musician but hard to be a parent of an aspiring musician too...

Neleus the only kids I know who want a career in music have only ever wanted to do that since they were little. Yes, they are bright but will not consider anything else. They are unbelievably single minded. It's a bit like kids who want to be artists or dancers. They're not fools, they know how competitive it will be but it doesn't matter, they couldn't possibly consider doing anything else. Then you get kids like the ones you are describing who, yes, are great musicians but their world will not stop turning if they have a day job and just do gigs for fun in their spare time. And thank goodness for that because there aren't enough jobs out there for the driven ones as it is!