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Original poster

Music Specialist School Discussion

343 replies

Kutik73 · 10/06/2018 22:58

Sorry, this is rather long…

We’d never considered specialist school route for our musical DS, especially at such a tender age (he is Y6). However, we’ve recently started seeing it could be an option in possibly near future.

The state secondary school DS is supposed to start from September has good reputation with a wide range of extracurricular activities and music is one of their strengths. However, they also hand out heavy amount of academic work daily, and basically keep their pupils pretty busy. Keeping teens busy could be a good thing, especially for those who may get in trouble or glue themselves to screen otherwise. But DS loves music and he likes to immerse himself in music more, but in reality, he’ll have less time for such freedom once he starts secondary school. The additional journey time is another thing. It takes 45 mins to get there, whereas it’s only 5-10 mins currently.

A friend suggested we could see specialist school as a small private school with strong music activities rather than a place where all DCs were aiming to be professional musicians.

Her logic is, the class size is a lot smaller than the state secondary school so pupils get more attention hence learn more efficiently, all the while there is no compromise in music studies. DCs who are keen to keep up academic work on top will manage to get good enough GCSE results for decent sixth form if they decide to pursue other than music for A level/uni. Although sixth form seems the most popular (and sensible) time to join specialist school, KS3 is actually the best time because if DCs change their mind on course, it’s easier for them to return to ‘normal education’ possibly at sixth form with good enough academic record and musical ability strong enough to be a music scholarship material. But if they stay focused on music and in fact decide to take it seriously, starting early will only become beneficial. Though, it depends on circumstance of course, and instrument. DS plays violin/piano for instance - hence early start can be rather important.

However, I heard and read some scary stories about music specialist school while I was researching. Some claimed they felt like they were living in a prison, some expressed unhappiness (even though they recognised the benefit and appreciated their fortunate position), some teachers talked about very able young musicians going to specialist school as a huge mistake, etc…

DS innocently expresses strong desire to go to music specialist school. I, as a parent, wish him happiness more than anything. By accepting his desire and letting him go where he says he likes to go, am I pushing him into a harsh and scarily competitive world unnecessarily? Or, like my friend suggested, it could be a lot more flexible than I may have been thinking and in fact could be good alternative KS3 education for musical and academic DCs?

Any thoughts/knowledge/experience would be greatly appreciated…

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 13/06/2018 18:51

2ndSopranos Smile

Oh dear, I think I should have packed more music or skill books for independent practice time. They asked me to bring music DS would be playing in the audition so I really packed only that. But this morning DS said there were 3-4 hours independent practice time allocated through a day so I asked him what he was doing during the time and he said a few runs of those audition pieces (but the auditions were already done yesterday...) and had a bit of fun on the piano. He said he was fine, but I think he doesn't really have any extra music to work on. I assumed they would provide something but apparently not.

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Trumpetboysmum · 13/06/2018 17:39

2nd sopranos hope she enjoys next week - at least you're nice and close Wink

2ndSopranos · 13/06/2018 17:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Kutik73 · 13/06/2018 15:04

So far I've got only one call from DS today - it was about his packed clothes so nothing to do with music nor school... He'd gone as soon as I answered to his question. Dying to know how he is getting on, if he slept well, what he ate for breakfast/lunch, etc..!

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 13/06/2018 12:35

Paul, I don't when yet. We do have a meeting with several school staff including the head on the last day of his stay.

stringmealong, sorry I couldn't really understand what you mean when you said WHICH CAMP. You mean one who enjoys lots of musical activities and one who doesn't? Then DS will be def the former one. He loves all sorts of musical activities. He's done g8, but doesn't think 'he got there so young' so 'stop trying to change', partly because he knows so many great musicians he knows he is still at the very start line, and also he's musical education has never been focused on grade system (g8 was only violin exam he took) so grade X and Y don't have much meaning for him - hence he doesn't have the thought of 'he got there'. Whether he is quick to change his habits - I am not very sure. I think he is a quick learner, but it's different from 'being able to change the habits', isn't it? I hope he is but not 100% sure...

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stringmealong · 13/06/2018 12:15

It's interesting observing dd & her friends in a musical all round school. Out of all the kids there on music scholarships, there is probably only a small handful who really enjoy all the musical activities scholars are expected to do. There are many more who hate attending orchestra/band/choir & are really only soloists. I think the biggest difference between them is how well they take criticism- if you think about it, young flyers can often have got there on pure talent not necessarily technique & the best teachers will be reinforcing better habits every week. Those who can change their habits quickly will do very well but they are generally in the minority. Many more get past grade 8 have a huge ego that they got there so young & stop trying to change. I would be asking myself which camp your ds falls into before making the final decision.
I hope that helps!

littleladsdad · 13/06/2018 11:24

2ndSopranos Good luck with your dd's audition next week. When our ds applied it was very much on the basis that he might as well give it a try. I'm glad that he did!

We moved our ds from the state system in year 5 due to a complete absence of music in our local rural secondary school, so I understand where you are at present.

Paulweller11 · 13/06/2018 11:18

Although I think they will offer him a place, they wouldn’t normally ask for a trial board without thinking of offering a place anyway.

Paulweller11 · 13/06/2018 11:07

When do you find out for sure Kutik- will they speak to you at the end of the week- once his trial board ends?

Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/06/2018 23:09

if he decides, for instance, to retrain as a lawyer in his 30's then it's possible. It would, I feel, be more difficult to do the reverse.
I agree. It''s definitely harder to do the reverse, though it may depend on the genre and instrument. Mine is a classical violinist, so hell, no. Def no reverse.

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/06/2018 23:04

2ndSopranos, When is her audition? Good luck!

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/06/2018 23:03

Yes, BoardingSchoolMater, it's a bit like leaving the decision to the school. But if he couldn't get in somehow it makes our life a lot easier. And if he could get in.... Well, having witnessed the scary level of standard, if the school thinks DS is good enough to join, then it may be a good idea to accept it!

MidLife Grin

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MidLifeCrisis007 · 12/06/2018 19:27

Kutik.... you know my views on this.... !!!

BoardingSchoolMater · 12/06/2018 19:16

Just seen your update, Kutik73. I know how high the standard is. Similar to my DS's school. But if your DS can get in, that would be a very good reason to accept. And if he doesn't, you can, as you say, enjoy his state secondary and his music without worrying any further.

BoardingSchoolMater · 12/06/2018 19:13

Ooh. A tricky one.

My DS was offered a place at a specialist music school, and a music scholarship to a stupendously good 'all round' school. We went for the latter. Partly because he is also an academic high-flyer (many other, less desirable, aspects to him - so don't think I am trumpeting his brilliance), but also because we thought an 'all round' school would potentially give him more options later on. It helped that he wanted to go to the 'all round' school, even though it's 300 miles away. If he had been desperately keen on the specialist school, though, that might have swayed us. He did look at it, and liked it - but didn't love it in the way he set his heart (aged 10) on the alternative.

I think that if something good is on offer, it is a good idea to accept it. It isn't forever. If it doesn't work out, you can re-think.

Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/06/2018 19:07

But anyway, having attended the concert, I can confidently announce that the standard is almost impossibly high. I am honestly surprised DS was called to stay a few days. It's a totally different league, seriously.

So my concern could disappear like a bubble. If this few days stay doesn't take DS any further, he can go to the state secondary without wondering 'if' and 'but'.

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/06/2018 18:57

folk, you are so kind. I hope DS is one of few 10yr olds who CAN have a valid opinion in this situation as you say. But I am not really sure. He can be very sensible and mature but at the same time too innocent and too immature. He believes things too much too easily including himself. He is a strong self believer and it appears to be 'knowing confidence' and also being too naive. I am not sure if my little concern is mother instinct or simply coming from my worrying nature.

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/06/2018 18:48

A bit of update...

I dropped DS and stayed there for a while for an interview, a little tour of the accommodation and a lunch time concert. It was a lovely school, perhaps really ideal for DS. Yet I left the school with mixed feeling. I don't know why. I had similar feeling at the open day too. I felt, though a lovely school, it was not for DS. But surprisingly DS had totally opposite reaction - he loved it and was convinced it was his future school.

I got a quick phone call from him just now. He said everyone at school was so kind, and he enjoyed their food. DS played some piece on the violin and also on the piano to someone and he felt he did very well (well, he always says 'he did well' so I usually half listen to him Grin). So again, like how we were at the open day, we had different views. He sounded very happy and loving being there.

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AlexanderHamilton · 12/06/2018 17:18

The one thing I’ve learnt is that nothing has to be final. You can always re-evaluate.

With Dd I didn’t want her to turn round in years to come & say mum you didn’t let me try. We constantly reminded her over the 5 years (& there were a few wobbles) that it was ok to change her mind, it wouldn’t be seen as failure & if she ever lost her love of dance it was time to re-evaluate.

In the end it was Ds (who went to a sought after academically selective school) who we moved to a state comp after two years of hell. We never thought he’d be the one to change schools.

folkmamma · 12/06/2018 16:33

I think you will find people on both sides of the fence who regret the choices / paths they took or were guided down. That's just life!! As a child, I was both musical and academic. I went down the academic route. Do I regret it? Hell yes. Every single day. But whose to say it would be any different if I'd made the other choice or been steered differently?

My 10yr old is not yet equipped to make a choice like this - but from what I know of Mini Kutik I believe he is a very different child. I genuinely think he is one of few 10yr olds who CAN have a valid opinion in this situation. He also has a Mum who is extremely in tune with his personality and desires, appreciates his strengths and weaknesses, and will always listen to him with an open mind. He has the confidence to tell you what he wants, so even if he goes and it turns out to be the wrong thing, you will know. So take comfort Kutik, I am sure you will agonise over the decision that faces you but you will ultimately make the right choice and Mini-Kutik will fly!

littleladsdad · 12/06/2018 16:12

I think you are aware Kutik that our ds is joining a specialist school in September. He's currently in Y8 at a prep school, so decisions had to be made about future schools. He auditioned for 2 specialist schools and was offered places by both. They were both fantastic but very different and it was a tricky choice!

We all feel comfortable about boarding but not sure we would have been any sooner. Our reasons for feeling happy about boarding at this point are:

He'll get to play music - lots of it!
He won't get to play Fortnite lots!
He'll be home every three weeks (to play Fortnite)
Class sizes are small.
He'll get to spend lots of time with friends, which he doesn't do currently due to our location.
He's close to the Junior departments in London and will be attending one on Saturdays.
He'll get amazing opportunities to meet and learn from professional musicians and peers.
If he wants to have a career in music, he'll be well placed to do so.
We will be making a contribution to fees but the Music & Dance scheme is very helpful! Bear in mind that full fees at specialist schools are in the region of £32k per year. Even with a generous music scholarship, independent school fees are far more painful!
Ultimately, having received offers from specialist schools, we felt that we had to give him the chance to follow this route. Working lives are very flexible these days and if he decides, for instance, to retrain as a lawyer in his 30's then it's possible. It would, I feel, be more difficult to do the reverse.

I feel that I've rambled, but happy to answer questions about the process etc if helpful.

ealingwestmum · 12/06/2018 09:11

unless he is absolutely insistent that it is all he wants to do

This. Not an easy one to determine at 10, I know, and whilst he has continued to show an extremely strong desire to go, he also has many, many other interests.

Anecdotally I have got to know 2 young adults who went to specialist schools, one highly respected London music and Millfield. Both have shown regret for taking the specialist route at 18. I won't share all the reasons, but what they did have in common were they were very bright people, and whilst they felt their schools offered reasonable core teaching, they were now feel that they are at a disadvantage against their peers that come via the the non-specialist route due to not quite fulfilling their academic potential, yet their peers still excelled in their specialisms.

Your DS's next few days will be of such value kutik, and I wish you all the best in coming to a clear cut decision. One thing is for sure, specialist school or not - we all wish we had a crystal ball when our DC are entering secondary years as we never really know if it'll be a good match. Not everything is in the school's control, and the cohort mix can play a large part of whether a school us suitable or not, on top of the teaching, extra curricular etc etc.

Paulweller11 · 12/06/2018 07:20

What does she play 2’nd? Which school is it?

2ndSopranos · 12/06/2018 07:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/06/2018 02:11

I'm sorry for the late coming back. I've been reading but couldn't write until now. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate all the inputs. MismatchedPJs, I know you are not trying to talk me out of it. I would like to hear many different views so you are only helping me here. And, I must give druid my special thanks for making things easier. Grin

Re; independent school route, I can see why some people suggest the option instead of jumping into full time music education. But for now, the option is put on hold. DS tried and won a music scholarship for 11+ entry. But that actually ended up triggering DS starting his music school ambition campaign. In the end, we turned down the offer and decided to send him to a state secondary with a strong music department (he won a music scholarship there too). However the plan has started to be wobbly because of DS's never ceasing strong desire of wanting to go to this particular music school.

DS is off to the 3 days trial at a music school tomorrow....

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