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Original poster

4/4 Violin hunting

540 replies

Kutik73 · 12/02/2018 17:41

We've started hunting for a 4/4 violin for DS. We have visited two luthiers so far and each let us take one home. We can keep one for a week and another for two weeks.

DS likes one in particular and it costs £5500 for the violin alone. I know the price is not always mirrored to the quality of the sounds. It only makes difficult to judge as I don't play any instrument. So I did a bit of research and accidentally found the same violin being sold back in October for £1200-1800. It's auctioned so the exact selling price was not displayed. Looking at the photo, it has the same marks and scars so it's definitely the same violin we have here.

I can see the bridge, chin rest, and tuners has been replaced. But the selling notes stated the condition as excellent so I assume major work wasn't required by the luthier. But I don't know.

Surely luthiers have to make money so I understand it's common practice for them to buy something cheaper and add some work and sell at a higher price. But more than doubling the bought price sound quite a lot, especially it seemed to be in great conditions already.

Should I be careful or can I trust the luthier? I hope he is not pricing unnecessarily high... Any input/advice/sharing experiences would be greatly appreciated!

OP posts:
Original poster
Kutik73 · 27/05/2018 23:30

The crappy bow was at around £45 or so, so truly no worth having rehaired. The carbon bow is 3/4 so again I am not sure if it's worth repairing as we really needs a full size bow. But we may as well do it.

Elizabeth, so exciting you are hunting for a forever violin!

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ElizabethBennetismybestfriend · 27/05/2018 20:00

Our search starts once A levels are over. We are looking for a violin to get to diploma standard even though DD won’t be studying music. My viola came from Milner and Hallows in North Yorkshire but they have retired so this thread is going to be really useful.

GrannyHaddock · 27/05/2018 19:50

£45 seems very high just for replacing a bow leather, but maybe more work was needed. It is true that it is cheaper to buy a kid's bow than get the old one rehaired. A carbon bow has its uses, especially for out-of-doors events, known as muddy fields dates

ColoursOfRain · 27/05/2018 19:15

As long as you match the bow to the instrument, it should be fine - but (considering the cost) it's another decision not to rush into. Even a spare needs to suit.

Original poster
Kutik73 · 27/05/2018 19:11

ColoursOfRain, I thought we may be able to get a bow, prob as a spare in future like NeverEver suggested, before sending the violin back to the maker. But do you mean we should wait till the re-varnish is finished?

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ColoursOfRain · 27/05/2018 18:46

You really need the violin first, then get the bow that works best with that instrument.

Original poster
Kutik73 · 27/05/2018 18:42

Elizabeth, have you been to JP Guivier? They have all kinds of violins new and old. Richard is brilliant.

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 27/05/2018 18:40

Granny, actually it's not broken. Just the leather bit was come off so the metal wires are exposed making holding uncomfortable. We can have the leather replaced but was told it would cost at around £45. The carbon bow was less than £100 (but originally £120 or so) so thought it's not point repairing. We may replace the leather.

NeverEver, DS has quite a few performances in June which makes trying out new bows a bit awkward. We were going to start looking for a bow once all the important performances are done, but now we have to send the violin back to the maker. We can't pick a bow without the violin...

OP posts:
GrannyHaddock · 27/05/2018 15:58

Kutik, sorry if I missed this if you wrote about this further back, but how did the carbon bow get broken? I had imagined they were practically indestructible. I heard of a dealer demonstrating this by dropping one, point down, on to the floor of his shop.

ElizabethBennetismybestfriend · 27/05/2018 12:40

Thanks. Husband and I are both viola players but we bought our instruments years ago and the places we got them from are no longer in business so this thread has been really helpful. We want to get it right as it is the forever violin and 18th birthday present. No pressure.

TaggieOHara · 27/05/2018 11:49

Elizabeth we went to Beechers in Oxford, ( www.beecheracoustics.com ) who were wonderful. They listened to DS play very carefully, and based their recommendations on his style and sound. Each violin was adjusted (soundposts and bridge) as he was playing, so we could hear its potential. At the end, we had quite a long discussion. I think we could have taken violins away on approval, but it was very obvious to all of us, which was the ‘winner’. We did not want to shop around because we are very pushed for time and it was a bit urgent as DS has had a big growth spurt! But for a full size, you probably will want to follow in Kutik’s footsteps and go round to a few luthiers.

Previously, we have used J.P. Guivier in London, who were also really good.

ElizabethBennetismybestfriend · 27/05/2018 08:32

Tagging O Hara would you mind telling me where you went to find your son’s violin? We are about to start looking for a forever violin once the A Levels are over

NeverEverAnythingEver · 27/05/2018 07:49

Sorry - interrupted. Meant also to say that my cellist DC has his favourite bow and another one half the price but decent enough, as back up. Because who would have thought that sometimes bows break, with or without human agent? Hmm (Gravity is to blame, apparently.)

NeverEverAnythingEver · 27/05/2018 06:49

Kutik - why don't you replace the crappy bow with a decent one first, and when the violin is back you can hunt for a better bow and keep the decent one as back up?

Original poster
Kutik73 · 26/05/2018 22:16

A slightly annoying thing about this re-varnish business is it will interfere the timing of our bow hunt. I was going to start our bow hunt once some important performances and exam are finished. But now we are sending the violin back to the maker for re-varnishing instead, so our bow hunt will be put on hold for I don't know how long. DS has been using a spare crappy bow since his carbon bow was broken. It really isn't great. The hair keeps coming off. But it's not worth rehairing. Not sure if it lasts till we can start our bow hunt!!!

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Trumpetboysmum · 26/05/2018 20:38

Tabitha you are right and that's why ds's trumpet teacher was wary of trying different trumpets . Apparently he went to try out better ones aged 13 and couldn't tell the difference so he didn't upgrade for a while. Ds's new trumpet is second hand so only cost a bit more than his intermediate one but he instantly said that it played and sounded differently and indeed it does . We have held off buying an expensive new custom built instrument for different reasons but I would imagine that Kutik's Ds is just the sort of extraordinary child who would be able to tell the difference .

Original poster
Kutik73 · 26/05/2018 20:14

Tabitha, indeed, I totally agree with your point.

I'm not very sure exactly how much Stentor costs. I guess there are several grades and but anyway I heard they are quite reliable and good value for what you get so my point was something relatively reasonable like Stentor could work fine for those who went up to grade 8. I didn't meant to indicate yours was Stentor... I actually thought yours would be antique like old German or French. DS had an old French 3/4 and it was at around similar price range and was beautiful.

OP posts:
Tabathatwitchett · 26/05/2018 19:50

However, the quality of the wood, varnish and craftmanship can make a difference

I would suggest a child would have to have reached a very good standard before that was much of an issue. My £750 wasn't a Stentor by the way. It was a handmade German violin.

NeverEverAnythingEver · 26/05/2018 18:05

That's great news Taggie! :)

Original poster
Kutik73 · 26/05/2018 17:43

Taggie, as you may guess I don't know much about grades neither, to be honest. After all it's his very first violin exam this term! Grin

I am super excited by the news, Taggie. That's so sweet he doesn't want to put it down! It would be great to share some clips to see each other's violin but sadly I seem to have lost the access completely. I cannot access to the channel from any device for some reasons. Very weird but I just can't get in. Is DS's piano clips still on there? I don't even remember which one I posted now...

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TaggieOHara · 26/05/2018 17:24

Kutik - I don’t know much about grades to be honest, but I do know about violin and piano, and based on his playing, your DS most definitely is exceptional Smile. I can’t wait for you to sort out your phone so that we can see/hear a snippet of mini-kutik’s wonderful new violin!

We have some news on the instrument front... DS2 now has a beautiful 3/4 size violin. It is Czech and made in the late 19th century. He tried about 5 violins blind (not knowing price/age/maker) and had an immediate affinity with this one, so we bought it then and there. I was sad to say goodbye to the lovely little 1/2 size but DS2 is just excited to move on. He has not wanted to put it down! Once he has sorted out his point of contact, I will post a clip on the channel.

Original poster
Kutik73 · 26/05/2018 15:24

lone???? Confused
We had a choice to BE LOANED a nice instrument...

I must stop this kind of mistakes really!

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 26/05/2018 15:16

Thanks everyone for reading my looooong poor English posts! There were a few more smallish dramas but I decided focusing on the happy side as otherwise it would be a novel. Grin

Tabitha, I totally get what you mean as it was not so long ago that spending £750 on a violin for a child was out of our normal sense. Indeed £750 is quite a lot - there are lots DCs who happily work up to grade 8 on Stentor and it seems catering well for their needs. I understand that the cost wouldn't always reflect the sound quality as values for dealers and players are not the same. And it's also true that not all the professionals own very expensive instruments so having an expensive instrument may not be 'a must'. However, the quality of the wood, varnish and craftmanship can make a difference and often allow players to create more colours. We had a choice to lone a nice instrument also but fortunately we had fund and DS found one he loves so it made sense for us to go for the purchase. By the way we didn't pay as much as you may be thinking in the end. We've been incredibly lucky.

Taggie, thanks for the lovely words about DS but I must disagree with your comment on the 'easily g8+' bits! Piano is def not that level - it's been neglected greatly. He still plays regularly but mainly as crazy confused composers (he still loves doing this and makes us laugh)... Also, DS's jd didn't offer a scholarship! I am happy for people to believe the myth though!! GrinGrin

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NeverEverAnythingEver · 26/05/2018 14:01

Glad it's sorted kutik.

When I was hunting (Grin) for my piano and when DS was hunting for his violin, the "worst" thing was that you know it when the instrument is yours. Luckily both my piano and DS's violin didn't require a second mortgage...

Trumpetboysmum · 26/05/2018 08:15

Taggie Smile I do wish there was more help for brass players though , although in brass bands they are often loaned instruments . Ds now has a lovely cornet too !!

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