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Original poster

4/4 Violin hunting

540 replies

Kutik73 · 12/02/2018 17:41

We've started hunting for a 4/4 violin for DS. We have visited two luthiers so far and each let us take one home. We can keep one for a week and another for two weeks.

DS likes one in particular and it costs £5500 for the violin alone. I know the price is not always mirrored to the quality of the sounds. It only makes difficult to judge as I don't play any instrument. So I did a bit of research and accidentally found the same violin being sold back in October for £1200-1800. It's auctioned so the exact selling price was not displayed. Looking at the photo, it has the same marks and scars so it's definitely the same violin we have here.

I can see the bridge, chin rest, and tuners has been replaced. But the selling notes stated the condition as excellent so I assume major work wasn't required by the luthier. But I don't know.

Surely luthiers have to make money so I understand it's common practice for them to buy something cheaper and add some work and sell at a higher price. But more than doubling the bought price sound quite a lot, especially it seemed to be in great conditions already.

Should I be careful or can I trust the luthier? I hope he is not pricing unnecessarily high... Any input/advice/sharing experiences would be greatly appreciated!

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 15/03/2018 09:18

Ooooh, I hope Miniprada likes the rosin. DS seems to be happy with it. Good luck for her concert!

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Pradaqueen · 15/03/2018 07:15

Kutik - I've ordered the rosin to arrive today. Available on stringzone for anyone who wants to order. Miniprada has a school concert later so we'll see if the sound is improved....Wink

Original poster
Kutik73 · 14/03/2018 08:37

cingo, let me know about Alex Hillairet if you happen to visit him before me! Grin

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cingolimama · 14/03/2018 08:01

Kutik, I didn't know about Alex Hillairet so thanks for that - another name for my "violin contacts".

Original poster
Kutik73 · 14/03/2018 07:47

cingo, the rosin is William Salchow (N.Y.). I bought this from Matthew Coltman in Earling. If you live in the area, you may be interested in Alex Hillairet also? I thought of combining two visits (B&N and Alex) but DS has orchestra this evening so we prob struggle time-wise. This also bring me back to the debate of small workshop vs large workshop for the benefit of future upgrade.

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cingolimama · 14/03/2018 07:23

Kutik, very interested in your visit to B&N, as it's my local shop/repair place. I feel you're blazing a trail here to inform the rest of us. So thank you!

Btw, what was the roisin?

Original poster
Kutik73 · 14/03/2018 05:57

I bought a new rosin yesterday, just out of curiosity. Wow, what's the difference! The English made violin suddenly opened up and made some juicy sound. DS and I both thought to return this violin but we may test it out more!

Today we are visiting Bridgewood & Neitzert. Each place has different aroma and charm. I can't wait to find out about them.

I am also meeting Martin Swan this weekend. I'll report you back my thoughts, Maursh!

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 13/03/2018 21:13

Prada, I agree, 100 p/ex def gives me the sense of easiness... But in that case, isn't it better to go to a luthier/dealer who can offer wider selections rather than those who run a small workshop and have a few at a time? I like this particular luthier who runs a tiny workshop outside of London and he happens to have some lovely instruments time to time (we bought two from him before). I am visiting a large shop tomorrow. I know they have lots stock and they do 100 p/ex. Part of me is excited about the visit and is hoping to find something, but part of me is wanting to find something from the one I mentioned above. However, I know he may not have many to offer when it comes to exchange/upgrade in future...

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Pradaqueen · 13/03/2018 21:00

Kutik - I like the idea of 100 p/ex. Yes it does tie you in, but as an ex car dealer I can tell you that it is appealing! Plus something is worth what it is worth regardless of the dealer/luthier so tying in with one shouldn't really be an issue?

Pradaqueen · 13/03/2018 20:58
  • selection not dejection 😂
Original poster
Kutik73 · 13/03/2018 20:51

disorganised, if your DS is serious enough to think of going to music college, I don't think anything you buy now will be his forever violin. He may need to upgrade before college and again when he is leaving college, then again and possibly again (and again). If you choose by the tone, you can probably select from £1k to £5k rather than just around £5k.

A dealer I spoke to today said to me what important is to make sure we can get the money back (ideally 100%) so that we can keep upgrading without losing money. I understand what he is saying, but doesn't it tie you up with a dealer/luthier who we bought a violin from and promises 100% money back for trade-in? Sure we can try to sell it independently, but we may get only 60% (or 50%, 30% and so on) back...

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Pradaqueen · 13/03/2018 20:06

Disorganised- I'd get a dejection to try. Miniprada did not select the most expensive violin, but the one she most liked the tone of. As she was only 11 and physically very tiny, i don't consider this her 'forever' violin either. I think there will be another term come. She is going to start thinking about JD auditions soon so we'll see what happens if she makes it into one....

disorganisedmummy · 13/03/2018 18:28

Prada and Kutik we got ds's violin from Woodbridge and I agree that Russell is fabulous and it is like Olivander's wand shop! We will be going there for ds's full size though I'm very unsure about spending upwards of £5K which his violin teacher suggested when he's only 12. I'm not sure he's ready for his "forever" violin yet. He wants to go all the way to Music college and I'm sure that will happen but he's 12. Anything could happen in 4 years. What are people's views?

Original poster
Kutik73 · 13/03/2018 18:15

People keep telling me about Woodbridge and Stringer yet I haven't visited those big two after all the painful research! I don't know why... I have a few appointments this week. If none of them didn't work out then those two are def where I would go next!!

DS will take tube to school too from September...

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Pradaqueen · 13/03/2018 17:54

Kutik - we used Woodbridge violins for both 3/4 and 4/4. Russell is fab. The best part is whatever your budget is, he will leave a selection both well below and up to your budget. Never above and all are testedblind by the player - I.e no problems cars on the map to influence. It is a bit like olivander's wand shop in there! Re: bows we had a selection from £100- £2k and miniprada chose one of the cheapest on the basis she genuinely could not see the day deference. We also p/ex'd the 3/4 for 100% of what we paid for it as it was also from Woodbridge. My biggest fear is leaving it on the tube though, so whilst they are young, maybe borrowing an insured one is not a terrible idea....

Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/03/2018 21:00

Maursh, checked the website and it does look interesting!

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/03/2018 20:01

Paul, you mean order-made? No I don't think we will go there. It'll be too expensive and too risky since we don't know much about makers and whose violin would suit to DS's needs. DS is still at the very beginning of his mastery so ordering one for him sounds such waste (sorry DS!). Maybe one day!

Maursh, yes I am aware of the name value thing. Although I would like to say we are 100% after the sound and quality only, if we end up paying at around £5k, I would like to have some securities of saleability for future upgrade. However what I feel right now is, if we are looking for both the quality of the sound and the reasonable name value, we won't find one that satisfies us (DS) within our budget. At this stage, DS needs something playable and sound, so I decided to go for something more reasonable which we choose purely for the quality of the sound and we don't get too disappointed when we couldn't get much money back in future.

I hear lots of good things about Chinese violins but they are mostly good handmade ones. I would be very surprised £300 violin can cope with professional use. Surely the wood won't be seasoned enough, and good quality ebony cannot be used? Or I may be discovering something new again? I like new thoughts and ideas that open up my mind and choices!

I will check out Martin Swan. Thank you! Smile

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Maursh · 12/03/2018 18:23

There is a difference between a named makers and tonal quality. A named maker will raise the instruments price: this doesn't mean that you get a better sounding instrument. You are paying for the pedigree and providence: there are some very nice factory violins from China for £300 which I have seen professional soloists use in concert.

Try Martin Swan violins - they are new instruments, fantastic tone, about £2000 mark, based outside of Edinburgh. (I have been playing for 30 years and am an unqualified violin teacher to 30 students).

Paulweller11 · 12/03/2018 18:15

Have you thought of having one made Kutik- mini Kutik could borrow one from the JD until it’s ready?

Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/03/2018 15:46

cat, you read my mind! I've just emailed JD about it! Smile

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catkind · 12/03/2018 14:32

Given you're back to square 1 again, would it be worth reconsidering borrowing from JD for a year or two? I think I'd find that tempting if it was one of my kids. Give them that bit longer to grow into a full size while still keeping an eye out for opportunities, older students upgrading and selling on etc.

Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/03/2018 11:18

I didn't expect to go back to square one at this stage to be honest... But I feel all we've done so far is no waste and DS and I are actually enjoying the learning process (though very exhausting!!). And yes, I think this new move would give us more realistic options.

The teacher didn't tell us any specific figures but she seemed to be happy with a £4k and a £6k we showed her. She didn't said they were too expensive nor too cheap. She did say more than £8k would be too much at this stage. She doesn't mind factory-made/handmade. Her advice was 'take time, no rush'.

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MadameChauchat · 12/03/2018 11:03

Sorry to hear you're back to square one! I think it's a good idea to have a look at some cheaper violins, with the experience you both now have. If your son doesn't like any of them you'll know you should probably spend more.

Did his teacher advise on what sort of price you should be looking at?

Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/03/2018 10:00

Booked two visits this week. I was asked the budget so told them roughly £1k to £3k. I described what kind of violin we were after also.

At the end of our journey I am going to list up all the places we visited and my very subjective recommendation of luthiers/shops. I am hoping this thread could be of any help for those who are in the same position in future. Smile

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Original poster
Kutik73 · 12/03/2018 09:21

claras, I think you hit the nail on the head. I was always advised to take time and spend serious money for 4/4 so I was diligently following the advice but perhaps a bit too literally.

DS and I just discussed about it this morning, and both agreed to re-start our research with more open minded attitude.

DS is playing quite a few pieces but the most recent solo piece is Janacek's Works for Violin and Piano.

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