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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

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Original poster

4/4 Violin hunting

540 replies

Kutik73 · 12/02/2018 17:41

We've started hunting for a 4/4 violin for DS. We have visited two luthiers so far and each let us take one home. We can keep one for a week and another for two weeks.

DS likes one in particular and it costs £5500 for the violin alone. I know the price is not always mirrored to the quality of the sounds. It only makes difficult to judge as I don't play any instrument. So I did a bit of research and accidentally found the same violin being sold back in October for £1200-1800. It's auctioned so the exact selling price was not displayed. Looking at the photo, it has the same marks and scars so it's definitely the same violin we have here.

I can see the bridge, chin rest, and tuners has been replaced. But the selling notes stated the condition as excellent so I assume major work wasn't required by the luthier. But I don't know.

Surely luthiers have to make money so I understand it's common practice for them to buy something cheaper and add some work and sell at a higher price. But more than doubling the bought price sound quite a lot, especially it seemed to be in great conditions already.

Should I be careful or can I trust the luthier? I hope he is not pricing unnecessarily high... Any input/advice/sharing experiences would be greatly appreciated!

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Original poster

Kutik73 · 18/03/2018 22:26

By the way, Martin Swan was a delightful gentleman. He asked me about DS a lot. He was obviously very keen to understand his customer's needs. He was not pushy at all, instead gave me very honest, frank opinion/advice. He said DS may not be satisfied with the violin he brought today. But he was also confident that it was a great violin for learning point of views (balanced, healthy and playable). He was genuine, helpful and very laid-back.

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Original poster

Kutik73 · 18/03/2018 22:15

MsJolly, I've already tried to sell it to DS a few times. He knows our financial resource is not endless and he understands and agrees with the concept of getting something reasonable that ticks very necessary boxes. He just doesn't want the £4k one, period. So I guess I have to accept it's not going to come back to us. After all, he has to like the violin no matter how much it costs.

We've got an alternative violin to the £4k one now as I collected one from Martin Swan today. It's less than £3k, very basic, but good enough for learning with balanced tones and playability.

DS still prefers the B&N one but agrees to give a go with the Martin's violin for a couple of days to test out. Unfortunately we couldn't compare the sound between two violins as the A string on the B&N one is about to break! The teacher advised us not to tune the A string as it's really about to snap. I've got to sort it out somehow (but unwilling to buy a string as we may not buy this violin...).

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MsJolly · 17/03/2018 09:40

I would sell it to DS that it's not his forever instrument but is just for the next few years so therefore it is better to get the cheaper one-which TBH sounds perfect for his stage of playing and life with tube trips etc. A £6k violin plus expensive bow on top would have me having kittens in a 10yr old hands!

colleysmill · 17/03/2018 01:23

Expensive business buying string instruments :)

Original poster

Kutik73 · 16/03/2018 23:55

I know... I may go back. But it depends on how things turn out this weekend. The Old French from B&N does sound lovely. The picky DS seems to be happy with it. We'll see what the teacher say tomorrow. I am also collecting one from Martin Swan on Sunday. I am interested in his violins and it has a pretty price tag (under £3k).

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MsJolly · 16/03/2018 23:09

I would definitely go back and check out the £4K one again

Original poster

Kutik73 · 16/03/2018 13:48

Brilliant! Thank you for sharing, colleysmill!

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colleysmill · 16/03/2018 12:46

Should add people come from far and wide to see him and fly instruments in to him from all over the world so it won't be unusual anyone not local to contact him :)

colleysmill · 16/03/2018 12:43

I use a chap in Lincoln called Andrew Sutherland (Google steep hill strings) really knowledgeable, quite relaxed and done some excellent repairs for me. I've had friends who have purchased instruments from him and been very pleased. I believe he does some work with the strad society so is quite highly regarded :)

Original poster

Kutik73 · 16/03/2018 10:36

The violin I previously mentioned I liked (the teacher also) but DS was not sure therefore returned was exactly what you described. Old and without label with a lovely sound and in great condition, and it's 'only' £4k. The luthier was keen to take DS's 3/4 so it could have been a really attractive deal. It's from one of the nearest shops also so it would have been easy to maintain the relationship and pop in anytime when needed...

Whereas B&N is not easy to get from where we live. And, the violin sounds nice but a lot more battered and tired-looking than the £4k one which was absolutely in min condition.

Personally I don't see huge difference in sound between the £6k+ and the £4k.... Tempted to go back and compare the sound again!!!

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claraschu · 16/03/2018 10:07

I think old and without a name, but with a lovely sound would be the way to go, so this seems very promising! If his teacher likes the sound and you get a reliable second opinion about value and condition, I don't see how you can go too far wrong.

Original poster

Kutik73 · 16/03/2018 10:00

claraschu, it's an Old French. It has the sound DS likes but I do have a little concern (again)! I am getting the second opinion on this.

colleysmill, YES PLEASE! Recommendations are always welcome!!

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claraschu · 16/03/2018 08:28

Who is it colleysmill? I think the Kutik73 is going to compile a list eventually, and there are quite a few interested people following this thread...

colleysmill · 16/03/2018 08:24

Are you still looking for luthier recommendations? I know one who is absolutely fabulous and I am happy to recommend

claraschu · 16/03/2018 07:51

Ooohhh this sounds exciting! What is the violin DS liked? Who is the maker?

Original poster

Kutik73 · 15/03/2018 22:19

Getting B&N was a total nightmare. Sat Nav stopped working and all that. But the painful journey paid off. We had a great time there.

DS tried 10 - 15 violins, then selected the top three out of them but wasn't really convinced. A gentleman came in the room and chatted a bit with DS, then brought a few more but DS wasn't still convinced... Finally a lady brought a violin. And that was it. DS liked it. We decided to take it out for approval.

I told them my budget was £1k to £3k on the phone. But the one DS liked was over £6k... It's partly DS's fault as he kept saying 'not quite right', so they probably ended up upping the price. Luckily they liked DS's 3/4 violin so we were offered a generous p/ex deal so it'll be not too bad. Yet it's far from the good Chinese violin price I was originally hoping to settle down. But at least we didn't come home with empty hands!

I collected two more violins from another luthier while DS was at school today. DS tried them later in the evening and quickly told me he preferred the one from B&N. So those two are swiftly going back to the luthier.

We are still waiting to hear from Cardiff about the violin of DS's favourite. I am also going to see Martin Swan this Sunday.

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Original poster

Kutik73 · 15/03/2018 15:02

Prada, Wooodbridge is def on my list.

Emerence, I assume cello cases are more expensive, yes. Luckily DS's case is sorted (bought in Cardiff). Now we just need 'something' to fill the gap inside!

MsJolly, glad to hear someone spent for 6 months on hunting! My one month sounds nothing! But what's a lovely ending. I mean, almost like everybody's dream sort of ending!! DS's 2nd instrument is piano, and he's got Yamaha U3 and Clavinova. So at least his 2nd instrument is totally sorted, phew!

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MsJolly · 15/03/2018 13:47

Have loved reading this as it has taken me back a few months!
DD(13) and I spent around 6months and umpteen hours travelling/playing/
borrowing/returning instruments! We gave up for a while! She was so in love with her 3/4 that she was looking for perfection! We went with tone and sound-but...she also was after a certain look (not the most important part, but you've got to love it so it had to tick the boxes!) she wanted an antique violin (as her 3/4 was) & also didn't want an orange one!!!

Fortunately, one day, one of the many luthiers we had visited phoned me and said "I think I've got it!". Someone who played for the ESO had fancied a change for his 2nd violin and had traded it in! I went over-TBH it is the most beautiful violin to look at- of course, it was the one! It's a 1735 Klotz. She absolutely loves it. It was at the upperend, almost more than we wanted to spend at £5k.

I took it to another luthier who did valuations to see what they thought-muchos excitement involving them cataloging it and taking photos! They were shocked at me being offered it for £5k as they valued it at £7.5k! This did help the decision somewhat and took the sting out! The bow was relatively cheap as we couldn't find the perfect one so it was only £500 but will do as an interim/spare and now we are on the bow hunt!
Two months after she needed a new flute😱😱😱

I very much second taking your time-there is no rush. At 10, I would probably have gone down the cheaper route as an interim and got a good quality Chinese model. DD is nearly 14 now so I could get my head round it more and she is more reliable in looking after things (not like DS (11) who has just phoned me to see if I have his watch!)

Emerencealwayshopeful · 15/03/2018 12:03

What a quest. I’m impressed and inspired and a little overawed. So much hunting.

Primo is playing my sister’s 3/4 cello right now. We had it set up new for him, and they sawed off a part of the fingerboard at the same time. Reading this I’m wondering if we should be looking at upgrading his bow because maybe we’ve reached the stage where sound quality could be improved. Last year I tried to avoid taking it to school and having him play the school 3/4 - he refused, insisted that the quality was shit and it was unplayable. We transported it weekly.

I’ve kept his 1/2 size, it didn’t sell when I first listed it and after discussions we decided that having it there to use as part trade on the 4/4 would help with sticker shock. I think my sister will take the 3/4 back even though she plays a 7/8 herself.

Primo currently has a borrowed from the school 4/4 violin. It’s pretty awful, so if he keeps playing, even as a secondary instrument, we might need to look into finding something better.

Flute was easier. The flute secundus started on belonged to a different sister. This time last year we were told it would cost more to service than it was worth. He had just grown enough to do without the bendy head joint so we just had to choose between 3 models. The one he ended up with - we are told (teacher as well as shop) - will take him up to grade 6/7 comfortably and if he decides to stay comfortably amateur it might even be ok for a ‘forever’ flute. Maybe.

Looking forward to hearing future chapters of your tale. The right violin. And bow. And case. Are violin cases cheaper than cello ones? They must be because of the size.

Pradaqueen · 15/03/2018 11:44

Haven't seen the video yet disorganised, but I do think Woodbridge violins have a great range of violins with a beautiful tone. Miniprada's is very loud Russell also advised that between £2-£5kish there is not a great deal of difference in what you can purchase. We had at least 12 to try last time. You might save a couple of quid Kutik

Original poster

Kutik73 · 15/03/2018 11:02

disorganised, thanks for the info. I believe it's a combination of your mini and the beautiful violin that produces the lovely sound!

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Original poster

Kutik73 · 15/03/2018 11:00

LesLavandes, thank you for sharing your story and great advice - I will visit Guiver for bow!

To be honest I was happy with a violin and DS liked it to begin with but then later said 'still not quite right'. We kept it for a long time but finally returned a couple of days ago as DS didn't change his view (I'm still thinking of the violin).

DS liked another violin but I decided to return for a check-up as advised by three different luthiers. We may purchase this violin of DS's favourite if all the concerns are cleared. We are still waiting for the answer. This was the only one I decided to return but others were all DS's decision.

Initially we were going to buy during the half term holiday in February but couldn't. Now DS's back to school, movements slow down, though it may sound like we are doing a lot. I think we'll purchase during Easter (hopefully), or just borrow one from jd for the time being.

I am tired but DS is not... He is getting the joy of visiting different workshops/shops. He seems to be very interested in the making side rather than the playing side actually! So no, he hasn't been bored..., yet...

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LesLavandes · 15/03/2018 10:11

I'm a cellist's mother. My story. My son is a music scholar at a famous school. I said I would buy him his 'forever' cello when he got a full size. Before that, he was lucky enough to be part of the Benslow Music loan scheme and had
always decent instruments. His 3/4 - was beautiful. English cello maker. His teacher loved it too. When the time came to search for a full size, his teacher wished me luck.., I contacted cello maker of 3/4. She had just finished a full size and brought it to London for my son to try. He really liked it. His teacher tried it also and approved. I bought it. Every cellist who plays on it says it is beautiful to play on.
I feel so lucky. OP i cannot believe the lengths you are going to. My child would have got very bored of this. (Btw. I am a musician also).

The bow is very important. We have bought all our bows from Guivier. They are excellent. My son has a beautiful Hill bow and a decent second bow from Benslow as a spare. Guivier sell good student cello bows for about £400 and part exchange after. Take a look.

If I were you, I would stop the search and buy one of the ones he likes. As you say, it's not his 'forever' violin.

Good luck

disorganisedmummy · 15/03/2018 10:06

Lol Kutik is like to say that it's mini disorganised's playing but I have no idea! Yes it's from Woodbridge Violins and it's an antique French violin from around 1860 I believe. We paid £1500 for it and they will part exchange it for a full size which is great. He loves it and wants another antique for his full size. We don't think we will get mini dis his "forever" Violin this time round but an inbetween one. However if he finds "the one" we may think again. Watch this space!!

Original poster

Kutik73 · 15/03/2018 09:45

disorganised, I just watched Minidisorganised videos. Wow, is the violin from Woodbridge? May I ask you how much it was? Lovely tone! Or is it because of Minidisorganised playing it?

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