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4/4 Violin hunting

540 replies

Kutik73 · 12/02/2018 17:41

We've started hunting for a 4/4 violin for DS. We have visited two luthiers so far and each let us take one home. We can keep one for a week and another for two weeks.

DS likes one in particular and it costs £5500 for the violin alone. I know the price is not always mirrored to the quality of the sounds. It only makes difficult to judge as I don't play any instrument. So I did a bit of research and accidentally found the same violin being sold back in October for £1200-1800. It's auctioned so the exact selling price was not displayed. Looking at the photo, it has the same marks and scars so it's definitely the same violin we have here.

I can see the bridge, chin rest, and tuners has been replaced. But the selling notes stated the condition as excellent so I assume major work wasn't required by the luthier. But I don't know.

Surely luthiers have to make money so I understand it's common practice for them to buy something cheaper and add some work and sell at a higher price. But more than doubling the bought price sound quite a lot, especially it seemed to be in great conditions already.

Should I be careful or can I trust the luthier? I hope he is not pricing unnecessarily high... Any input/advice/sharing experiences would be greatly appreciated!

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Kutik73 · 05/06/2018 00:08

And possibly a spare set (violin, bow and case...)...

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Kutik73 · 05/06/2018 00:07

Now all we need is a bow! GrinGrinGrin

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Kutik73 · 05/06/2018 00:04

Just realised I haven't finished my reviews!

Cardiff Violins

Whoever kindly suggested this place, I just can't thank enough. First of all the trip was very pleasant. The transport, the location, the shop and the cafe we went, all were just wonderful. And DS met his violin there.

DS played the violin quite early on, and quickly decided he liked the sound. He tried a lot, some were probably too nice for him. But then the violin remained DS's favourite. The shop assistant/violinist said it actually sounded very nice when DS played. Sometimes violin also chooses player. Smile They let DS try the violin in several rooms, let him compare it with the violin we brought from London (our fav at the time), played both violins for DS, closer and also from distance.

We needed flesh air to think properly, so popped out and sat in a cafe in front of the shop, and had tea then discussed. When we went back to the shop, it was dark and the shop was nearly closing. We were the last customer but no one tried to kick us out.

As you know (or hope you remember all the dramas happened to the violin!), we had quite a few twists with this violin. But every time, they dealt with a problem sincerely and patiently. After the last crisis, Cecil from Cardiff Violins said the matter had only straightened our relationship and faith and I can't agree more. They care about people involved in their instruments - the makers, players, and dealers (and anxious mums of the players Grin). They really proved me that they are trying to achieve 100% satisfaction of the customers.

I also got to know the maker of DS's violin. I communicated with him via Cardiff Violins. He always replied with all honesty to every question I asked. I described him as a young maker who had probably just started violin making. But I was wrong. At least I found his violins at a few well established dealer's shops in London and they all talked about him highly and described him as a very skilled, experienced, laid-back, humble and lovable maker. His current violins are a way above our budget. DS is so lucky to have his violin really.

Cardiff is a long way from London. But it was so worth it. DS has his dream violin in his arms now, so of course.

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Kutik73 · 03/06/2018 21:43

Interesting. I did thought about getting a cheapish violin for school use but was always persuaded to stick with just one main violin for all purpose. However a cheapy one can also be used for travelling. Hmm. I may seriously consider the option now! I suppose you still should use your main bow for both violins as it directly affects bow technique learning?

Anyone knows anything about Gliga Gama? I heard it's quite nice for the price.

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catkind · 03/06/2018 19:04

One of my orchestra friends has a travel violin. His violin is worth a few £k and he likes travelling to tropical places, so he got a cheapy student one he won't worry about. He says it sounds surprisingly okay with decent strings - as it's just for practising, it doesn't need a big sound. Electric sounds interesting and possibly fun to have at home too though!

Kutik73 · 03/06/2018 10:44

We do keep it mostly indoor in controlled climate conditions however at some point we travel within the country and I would like to leave violin at our base but obviously we will switch off air-conditioning while we are away from the base, so it'll be left in a boiling room! Alternatively we can take it with us everywhere we travel but that creates another worries...

I'm afraid the destination (country) of our visit varies, Taggie. So leaving violin with a one place doesn't work sadly.

I bet DS would love the novelty of playing electronic and I think it would be great fun to use at school. Def get more approval from boys than playing normal violin I am sure...

disorganised, how is mini-disorganised getting on with his new violin and bow? I hope he is enjoying and loving it. Smile

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TaggieOHara · 03/06/2018 09:49

kutik if you are regularly visiting family, could you buy a student instrument out there and leave it with a family member?

On the other hand, professional violinists travel all over with their precious instruments, so maybe it would be ok for you to travel with DS’s violin if you have appropriate humidity monitors etc

NeverEverAnythingEver · 03/06/2018 09:34

kutikI haven't really given serious thoughts about piano upgrade. Smile

DC tried the electronic cello and violin at the Yamaha shop in London. Grin They loved the novelty ...

Mendingfences · 03/06/2018 08:16

Dd1 has played quite a lot og 'band' stuff on violin, with guitars, drum kit etc. An electric violin could be very fun in that context......

Hope your ds enjoy getting to know his New violin disorganised

GrannyHaddock · 03/06/2018 06:11

In the days of Empire you could have your violin "tropicalised"; wooden pins glued through the front and back at the corners to stop the instrument coming unstuck in the heat and humidity. Drastic!
You would be wise to leave the violin at home if it would suffer extreme conditions. It is humidity that is the main enemy. If it was going to be indoors in controlled climate conditions it should be fine. Otherwise, buy a decent Chinese violin for a few hundred pounds and take that and save all the worry.

Kutik73 · 03/06/2018 04:06

Now electronic violin would be a different story I guess? Violin has no space issue like piano so people wouldn't go for electronic as a replacement of real one?

I did consider getting one though as we'll go to a country with extreme climate and want to take violin with us. Or 'practice violin' (no electronic) could be another option. But never met one who uses it so not sure if it's worth having. Though I'm very reluctant to take DS's delicate violin... Any idea?

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Kutik73 · 03/06/2018 03:20

I think recent development of digital piano has opened up opportunities to many people who otherwise wouldn't have leant 'piano'. It certainly made learning piano more accessible nevertheless of your living environment. I prefer this way to limiting the opportunity to those who can own acoustic piano.

However I can see some serious irritation for 'instrumental snobbys' (and I am calling them lovingly) as there is huge difference between playing piano and 'keyboard'. Though I suppose understanding the difference between digital and acoustic and practise accordingly would help fill the gap.

DS owned only clavinova until he passed g5. The teacher would make DS aware of the mechanism of how grand piano worked by showing him the hummer action while playing and taught him to be conscious about the strings inside. DS would then play his clavinova in the same style as he would play the teacher's grand piano when he practised at home. So he was conscious about the imaginary hammers and strings. I think it made a difference in his playing and understanding.

We eventually got an acoustic piano a year and half ago but we never had any pressure to make the move from the teacher. She is all about 'practice makes difference no matter what gadget you have.' Not all teachers are like that and instrumental snobs are rightly snobby as I see the reasons but I appreciate the teacher's openness as it allowed DS to progress within his means.

NeverEver, interesting to know that piano also requires 'upgrade' according to player's progress like violin. But more I think of it, more it makes sense. Of course it should be! But outgrowing after only two years is quite an achievement, no? I imagine it's quite a pain to get rid out of the old piano? Or you get p/x like violin?

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druidsong · 02/06/2018 19:23

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

NeverEverAnythingEver · 02/06/2018 18:56

I wonder about a "forever" instrument - I'm not at a stage where I can be sure of a "forever" piano. Two years ago I was very happy with my piano, but now I'm beginning to think I need one that would push me a bit more, but not one I have to fight with. But I don't know if I would do it ...

Mendingfences · 02/06/2018 18:33

We have a Yamaha digital piano. Ds's teacher would prefer we had an accoustic and dd1s teacher doesnt appear to give two hoots. It takes up very little space and is easily moveable when we need space for guests. It's a practical solution.

NeverEverAnythingEver · 02/06/2018 18:09

kutik No dream piano and no particular name. Not necessarily a grand. I 'll know it when I see it. Grin

ColoursOfRain · 02/06/2018 17:57

NeverEver Smile Flowers

Kutik73 · 02/06/2018 17:45

NeverEver Smile

Out of curiosity, if money and living environment are allowed, which piano will you get? Is there your dream piano? Is grand piano it is always? Just wonder. I am not a pianist!

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NeverEverAnythingEver · 02/06/2018 17:40

As a non-violinist trying to buy a violin I've also had to navigate pure snobbery (my previous post Blush) and what really lies under, and weigh practicality and opinions and money.

NeverEverAnythingEver · 02/06/2018 17:38

Oh I am all for getting a good clavinova rather than a bad piano. And I'm not foolish enough to think that a piano suits every situation. If I couldn't get a piano I would go for a clavinova. Smile

Kutik73 · 02/06/2018 15:37

While DS adores his U3, he says the teacher's Steinway is easier to play (trills etc). But I suppose U3 is nice enough for someone who doesn't play piano seriously!

The piano at the exam centre we use is truly awful. Very hard to play dynamics. But the teacher says she still expects her pupils to play well in any condition. She says it's good to get used to playing varieties of piano as being able to adjust your playing accordingly is a crucial skill as a good pianist. You can't carry your instrument like violin!!

ColourOfRain, I think it's OK to have an opinion or even strongly dislike something. NeverEver is a passionate pianist so she has every right to get frustrated by the limitation of digital. Smile

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ColoursOfRain · 02/06/2018 14:43

Well said @kutik73

We can all look down on instruments - that's easy. They serve a purpose. Nothing is as good as the best, but if it allows people to place music, then I am not going to have an opinion on it. Things change at the higher grades, but generally there is time before that.

I took my stentor violin to a very well known luthier for years before I bought a 'proper' one. He treated it as well as all the other instruments. When I got my professional one (via a couple of upgrades), the difference is obviously worlds apart. But I'd never knock a beginner instrument (I would encourage the owner to get is set up by a professional, but that is another matter.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your tone, NeverEver

NeverEverAnythingEver · 02/06/2018 11:37

And clavinovas are flimsy. You can't imagine playing Rachmaninoff on it. (Actually I have once. And it wobbled.)

Kutik73 · 02/06/2018 11:34

We've got to appreciate and make do with what we have otherwise someone will soon start debate over upright vs grand piano! Grin

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Kutik73 · 02/06/2018 11:31

I would say it's like going into a Japanese restaurant run by Chinese chef. Nothing wrong with Chinese chef but they have totally different culture and taste and when you expect to have authentic Japanese cuisine a bit of different touch from traditional cooking can be a real let down. But if you expect to have Asian fusion it can be enjoyable. Basically digital can be a huge put off if you expect real touch but by its own it does a job.

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