November Music Thread

Goo's flute piece was beautiful Waffle. Such control.

So informative, thank you for sharing, Schwanengesang.

Re, intonation, you mean baroque violin plays 415? How about modern violin? I heard somewhere that is 442, and orchestra/piano is 440, though I also heard it can differ from orchestra to orchestra. If we use a tuner for individual practice, what it will be? 442 or 440??

Oh forgot to mention Reinhardt Goebel is (was) another good violinist. Musica Antiqua Koln recording of Veracini overtures, and the Art of Fugue, particularly.

Kutik a baroque bow on a modern violin will definitely get him a long way. Baroque violins are hard to master as the chin off technique is really difficult (every time you shift you feel like you will drop the violin) and gut strings feel different and go out of tune a lot. Intonation at a=415 is very subtly different from 440 too. So all in all I would say he would have more fun with modern violin and baroque bow and reading the treatises/ listening to the people I mentioned upthread, then if he still loves it at uni / conservatoire level he can switch. Conservatoires often have good baroque instruments that they will lend to interested students.

CPE Bach's True Art of playing the keyboard, and F Couperin's L'Art de Toucher Le Clavecin are also really informative of general style and ornamentation (30+ kinds of trills and vibrato, each with a particular use!)

Trumpet, your DS's school always sounds heaven to me. I would be ecstatic if DS's secondary school would be like that.

DS had an amazing opportunity to play with a leading violinist at a well-known orchestra today. He sat next to DS and they played together. DS was very talkative on way home, so busy telling me how wonderful he was. Later DS told DH about it, which he didn't get a reaction he expected. So DS said 'daddy, imagine David Beckham came to play football with you, it was like that!'. DH got it and got excited for DS (finally).

Schwanengesang, I am interested in your comment on a baroque bow. DS loves baroque pieces. I might consider getting him a baroque bow in future if it helps him achieve the technique required. Is it OK to use on any violin (I mean, his current violin)? Or it has to be or better to be a baroque violin?

I just watched Goo and miniDouble's wonderful performance. I can't believe such young age can produce such quality of music.

Oh no prada hope your mum recovers soon
Well done on the theory mininiggle and mini raspberry. What a shame that the music opportunities reduced at your ds's school raspberry. I don't know how ds would cope if he couldn't do something musical most days ( he's very lucky currently but with state schools especially you just never know if they will have the budgets to continue with lots of extra curricular stuff) mind you he might have more time to practice if he did a bit less playing I'm not really sure how everything is going to fit in this month or how he's going to find the time to look at all the different pieces of music he's playing with different groups . He of course is convinced it will be fine

Schwanengesang, I certainly was not recommending staccato I just remember (early 1990s) being made to do it. It’s no wonder I ended up refusing to play Baroque Music.

Wishing your mothers a speedy recover Prada and Icould!

DD1 revealed that her Grade 6 sax exam is at the end of this month. Hmm - she has to up her practice. Not nearly enough of it at the moment, particularly with scales and aural.

Playing baroque music staccato completely goes against the contemporary advice that instrumental phrases should be like singing.

Pradaqueen the reason we know about vibrato being a class of special effects and not continuous, is that there are tons of tutor books from the C18th. The best one would be Geminiani's The Art of Playing the violin, which is easily available in facsimile and easy to read. If Miniprada is at the level of doing YMotY then she will be wanting to get the phrasing authentic; Geminiani will be useful there. Can anyone lend her a baroque bow? It is SO much easier to get the required lightness of touch and "banana shaped" phrasing of long notes with a baroque rather than a Tourte bow.

As for whom to listen to, Rachel Podger, Sigiswald Kuijken, Fabio Biondi, Andrew Manze, more or less covers it. Try the New Dutch Academy doing Corelli for the style.

Thank you wafflenose. I really like Somerset. Not sure what I would do for a living though....

kutik I always though the no pedal on baroque piano was because the music was actually written for the harpsichord where you can’t go legato at all, let alone stick the pedal down. My piano teacher always used to make me play baroque piano music slightly staccato which I hated.

There we go. Fascinating (if you like this type of thing) in depth article on vibrato.

www.earlymusicamerica.org/emag-feature-article/vibrato-wars/

I think vibrato on the strings is like pedal on the piano. DS doesn't use much pedal for baroque pieces, or actually could be none - not 100% sure as I haven't paid too much attention to it, but obviously he doesn't use it like when he plays some romantic pieces. As I learn from how DS learns/plays, my understanding is that baroque music has to have a clear, pure sound without too much vibrato/pedal.

My daughter does some vibrato in Vivaldi. I am sure I read some whole big article somewhere about vibrato and not over doing it in Baroque music. How do they know it wasn’t used though? We don’t have recordings?

Was just feeling quite down about London today. The airplanes and the traffic and the pollution and the over crowding and the permanently broken district line and the over subscribed schools and the impossibility of ever moving house because of the crazy prices and the stamp duty.

Have been having a semi serious fantasy about moving somewhere quiet to the West.

Wafflenose would you be kind enough to let me know or PM the name of the town where you live? It always sounds so nice with its good state secondary school.

And, I am very sorry about your mum, Icouldbe and Prada. So glad to hear they are on the good recovery.

Prada, thank you so much for the great advice. No, it's not too late - I have done nothing yet though the deadline is fast approaching so I must get on with it! DS doesn't have many certificates and in fact the list of his achievements is rather short so I'm not sure our version will be 'a book', but I like the idea.

As long as I can remember, DS used vibrato for Vivaldi pieces but he used it like a special effect and kept the rest as pure and crisp as possible. I think it depends on how you interpret but he (and his then teacher?) felt excessive use of vibrato wouldn't suit baroque. So, if it's either lots of vibrato or none at all, then he would do none at all. Anyway, as Icouldbe pointed, miniprada is now with a new teacher, so I would suggest she would follow the instruction unless she strongly feels against the way.

Prada I had my mother in hospital last month after she tripped in the garden. She had surgery and a spell in a rehab unit and is now itching to be back home. The hospital visiting has been brutal owing to my inability to be in two places at once.

I know nothing at all about vibrato in Vivaldi but newteacher is the teacher now. Unless Mini feels strong enough to argue about artistic interpretation then I think she should follow instruction. If nothing else it will demonstrate that it is something she can control and afterwards she can compare and contrast the performances.

Hello everyone,

Sorry for the silence - my Mum was admitted to hospital unexpectedly. She will make a recovery but obviously i didn't have time for activity like mumsnetting.

Fitter - so sorry for your loss. How completely awful for you and your family.

Kutik - as a tip, assuming it is not too late, I scanned all of miniprada's certificates into an A4 printed book (the local printer did it for me) and at the front I had a sort of precis detailing what she had achieved (in and out of school) plus interest in music - orchestra's etc. I had her most recent photo placed on the front so it looked 'professional'. That way, she didn't have to 'boast' during an interview if there was one. It also saved having an enormous file with plastic pockets where the certificates could get lost if dropped. She got really positive feedback from the people who interviewed her. It was a complete ball ache frankly scanning everything in as it was time consuming with my scanner but worth it in the end.Good luck to your DS!

Miniprada is doing young musician of the year at school. She is doing Vivaldi concerto in A Minor. The rules of being a music scholar are that she cannot have another teacher outside of school (fair enough) but there is a difference of opinion between what the old teacher would have said and the new one about the use of vibrato in Vivaldi. New teacher is suggesting that there should be no vibrato at all in this piece and that Vibrato was 'not Vivaldi's style'. Miniprada's vibrato is actually one of her strengths so she is finding this hard. Who should she listen to? new teacher is obviously competent and teaches at one of the London music college's outside of school. Any opinions gladly received!

Ha! maybe everyone in an orchestra should have a go at percussion and then they'd know! Good for Miniealing!
Must go and watch these videos!

Wow thanks Double that sounded so nice, I do love the bassoon! She plays so well, should really keep it up. Her primary school hall looks just like DS' did.

And I saw a new video of goo that I hadn't seen before, I'll never tire of telling you how amazing she is at the flute, waffle. But I'm sure you know. A Grade 8 piece and she's already nailed it.

ealing congrats to mini on her upcoming solo. Glad the percussionists have been of help and even more glad someone actually respects them