November Music Thread

Done. Phew.

Such an interesting debate on A level selection impacting HE choices. Thank you to those with older DC and past experiences, such a minefield but floot's comment on progressive career discussions vs the past is also very encouraging to hear, for those choosing music at higher level.

drummers I would never try to talk him out of English! Wish I could persuade DS1 to do it. Maybe when he gets his actual results he might realise it’s for him!

Such a great insightful post Floot, thank you!

wow so much advice THANK YOU!
Icould that's so interesting about the joint course. DS is on track to make the required grades and is good at having no life poor thing but I'm not sure he wants to continue with his no-life life!!
loose yes we looked at Imperial thanks. He would have to do Music, Physics and Maths A Level. That would not allow him to do English A Level which he's really keen on at the moment. The HOD thinks he could easily do 4 A levels (school not keen on 4 A levels but could be persuaded according to HOD). But DS is not keen on 4 right now, his school have lots of interesting electives on top of the core and he was also looking forward to having more time for music.
Floot a very enlightening post txs so much.

Drummers, my tuppence worth...for what it's worth.
I went to music college, and did the graduate course, followed by a post-grad another London music college. My twin sister went to what was then Huddersfeld Poly, to study music, but knew in the first term that it wasn't for her, so auditioned and got a place at the RNCM.
My husband went to performing arts college in Liverpool as a drum kit player at 18 (no formal training to speak of, before then ), and then went to the RWCMD at 24 or so, as a percussionist.
I was offered my first orchestral trial while in my 3rd year, my sister never played again after graduating, and my DH has played professionally since leaving college.

Of my college friends, some have top orchestra jobs, some are soloists, some are HODs in secondary schools, some are in completely different fields of work.

I know several people who went to uni to study music and then did post grads at music college and perused a playing career. Likewise, I know a couple who went to Oxbridge (one who didn't study music there but did continue instrumental lessons) and now play with some of the top orchestras in the world.

My point is that there is no single route to becoming a musician. If you find yourself wondering whether it pays well enough, then it's probably not for you; above all else, music is a compulsion, not a choice. (Of course, as parents, we worry about the financial side but a child that's determined to follow a music career shouldn't be).
In all honesty, I haven't found my degree any real use as a performer but it would be useful if I wanted to study arts admin.or for a PGCE, for example.
Music colleges these days are fantastic at preparing students for life in the working world; they teach about social media presence, networking etc and prepare students for session work, West End shows etc, not just classical orchestral/soloist careers. In my day, we had next to no career advice.

I think we’re as sorted as we can be at the moment for where to study for sixth form. DS1 has provisionally chosen the subjects he plans to do for A level and has decided for now he won’t do music but will work on his performance diploma instead.
He’s doing 10 1/2 GCSEs, plus extra-curricular Japanese but not sure if he wants to do the exam this year!
drummers I feel for you - has DS looked at Imperial? There is a very interesting looking joint hons in music and physics. Not sure it helps, though. As you say the difficult bit is closing off options.

Hello everyone - I'm trying to catch up on the thread after a busy month! With A-level choices, it is important to consider what subjects complement each other as well as DC's current strengths and passions. Students often drop a grade or two on an 'outlier' subject because they have less e.g. essay writing/maths skill than other candidates. Seems obvious, but you'd be surprised how often we see this (I'm a university prof In my spare time :-) )

On music matters, I finally gave in to DS2's desire to be a youtuber and posted his Vivaldi and a short clip of him singing on the YouTube channel. He'll be thrilled! Very best of luck to DCs doing exams! Especially those with stinking colds.

There are only ten places on the joint course and you need to be academically good as well as musically good. EE is the standard offer, it's AAB for the joint course. DS was put off it by talking to current (not joint) students who said that the joint course people were never seen, had no social life and did nothing but work. i have no idea whether or not that is true.

I am shocked ( but also now feeling positive about my further discussions with school) unless they have changed things they still have a 3 year key stage 4 at his school and study for 12 GCSES . Just about fine when there was coursework and they staggered the years that they took them in probably not so fine now . I think I need to make an appointment to speak with his year head around the time they take their options ( next term) there's no way he can do 12 and do music and I want to keep all options open to him in the future. I really don't want to move his school so either they will let him follow a slightly reduced timetable with timetabled practice or study at school or I will make it clear that he will do the minimum of work for some subjects there's no way he can carry on doing what he's doing and spreading himself so thinly once the workload increases

Drummers - 10 GCSEs? Son only doing 7 and even that is a struggle with music :) On RNCM the combined course looks interesting although I don't know anything particular about it. I would slightly worry about how that works for percussion as the instrument workload can be so much more than if one instrument as you know but could be good way to hedge options. As you say it is a good place for percussion.

trumpet 10 Gcses is enough these days... DS' school won't allow for more, unless you do one outside timetable like he did with Spanish last year.

You haven't ruined my afternoon at all ! I'm expecting lots of tricky discussions ahead. We recently nearly missed a careers evening as he had looked at the sheet and said there were no stalls about music so he wasn't interested in going. We went anyway!! And did find out that for some careers such as law a level and even degree choice don't really have an impact on studying it later in. Their advice to ds was to do what he felt passionate about as it was all about grades and so it was better to study things that he really enjoyed. That made me feel better 😀 Though school seem to equate success to studying for a vast number of GCSEs and I'm not sure how ds is going to fair fitting this and lots of music in

It will always be like that when there is a new stage of life...its exciting and equally scary!!! By then it might be just the right time to reread “who moved my cheese”:).

To me, I am very worried about our secondary school entrance however delaying her studying on purpose so she could still read, does music, goes to chess tournament and messes around with her (so called) Arts activities. My friend’s daughter who is so much similar to mine compare to any others(boyish, quirky, fast however...lazy) failed her 11+ to all schools(they are all North London super selective though). I was shocked for couple of days thinking we would be the same. However I have now come to the thought that if that is the case for us then we will consider its just a test. We failed many tests in life and it didnt stop us taking other routes.
Looking back to all people we know then the ones who did well at school are not always who earns the most success, sometimes too much influence from parents might be negative ones(earlier in life:reducing children independent, creative and critical thinking, later on in life: hinding ability to take risks, responsible for own choice and be flexible to change when its needed regarding to Univ then career choice).

Well, I have posted too much for a day, I planned to have a day off to declutter my house (much needed) then I ended up spending times in coffee shop and cooking, the decluttering could then be postponed to this weekend.

herts one last thing. I have discovered a music degree at Manchester which is combined with RNCM. It's 4 years, 3 of those at Manchester whilst receiving tuition at RNCM and the fourth year you go full time to RNCM:
"The GRNCM/MusB, informally known as the ‘Joint Course’, offers a unique opportunity for students with outstanding practical and academic ability to gain the advantage of simultaneous study at both a world-class conservatoire and a world-class university. On successful completion of the course, students receive a diploma (Graduate of the Royal Northern College of Music, GRNCM) from the RNCM, and a degree from the University of Manchester (MusB)."

Do you know anything about it? Does anyone else know? Paulweller? Thanks.
RNCM is very good for percussion, I believe...

Thanks herts every bit of info really help
Thanks trumpet, sorry for ruining your afternoon and same to others... One should not be subjected to all this till the moment comes when you can't avoid any longer!
I've done little good work today, so much buzzing in my head. Oh well.

Drummers - my head hurts just reading your post. Could say lots of things but the one immediate one is that I do know quite a few musicians who have studied music at university BUT they tend to be more jazz than classical and they have gone to universities where the level of music is very high (such as Oxford and Cambridge). In contrast I can't think of any classical percussionist who studied music at university although I'm sure one exists. As for a university music degree being good enough for other careers I wouldn't worry too much especially in this day and age where there is a lot more career flexibility. I know of someone who focused on music until late 20's then gave up and joined the civil service on the fast track scheme and is now in a very well-paid private sector job.

Drummers I feel you pain - we're a long way off from these decisions yet but I fear that we may be having very similar conversations in a few years time

Ha ha it's alright kutik. But the finality of the choices at 16, the doors you're closing, the consequences of your decisions, it's huge. For some it's easy. They know what they want and that thing is a well paid profession. Others are clearly very able at something and not interested/able at other things. For an all rounder, whose passion is a risk career wise, whose abilities could land him several well paid respected professions but his heart is telling him otherwise while society is telling him to play it safe... It's a mess. On top of that, the hours one needs to put into researching the different options is endless. Even if you opt for music, do you go to conservatoir or to a university music degree. A university music degree leaves more doors open and jobs open but is not sufficient if you want to be a top performer so then you need to do a masters at a conservatoir, increasing the already huge debt. And if you're going to end up going to conservatoir for an MA anyway, why not do a BA that opens other doors? But if you do a BA that's not music, can you keep up your music at a good level whilst studying a different subject at a competitive university? And if you go to conservatoir and want to leave a fire exit open into Law for example, will a conservatoir BMus be enough to consider a Law Conversion Course and gain Training at a firm to pay for your qualification? And what about all those combined degrees now being offered: Music & English, Music & History, Music & Physics...are they just half good? And how about posponing the agony of narrowing and going to the US to study a Liberal Arts degree knowing that US Colleges are super generous with bursaries and scholarships (huge amount from DS school have gone to US and Canada this year)? And if you have the grades to go to Oxford or Cambridge but choose to go somewhere else because of the course offered, is that a mistake - like green said, it's all about what university you went to?
I could go on and on, but that's it in a nutshell.

My friend called us the other day and asking for A-level choice. He works in oil trading and his elder daughter studying Chemistry in one of the top univ in the country, his son also has been privately educated from a top London school and he thinks our career choice might be better. We are so humble compare to them, I wanted to tell him that our job is so boring and repetitive, we dont love our job(neither hate it), we are still very junior and our pay is average compare to city pay, 10 yrs plus in our career and we still struggle. I then could only tell him to watch out for the current trend in high-tech, and still the fundamental ones are: engineering, Chemistry, Law, Finance. Eventually its the name of the Univ you went to counted, you can be trained for anything later and usually will have to do further professional courses once in the field, HR and employer are looking for top Univ students really. Unfortunately I have no idea about the humanity and Arts and Music and dont know anyone on that side so no idea.

That's very true. OK, that would make me run and hide. Sorry for my ignorance. to drummers and everyone who are going through the stage.

*Kutik - the thing about secondary schools is that there are just a few choices and still plenty of time to correct if things don't quite go to plan. It gets a bit more real come sixth form/university especially the big one of how much to put ones eggs in the music basket. Of course not final but if you decide to go for music college that is a huge decision.

drummers, I think you can't compare choosing A levels and secondary schools because both are equally important for those who are at the stage so no comparison can be made. A tiny weeny thing for someone can be a big deal for others.

Having said that I understand it must be scary... But with your boy's determination and diligence, he will make it whatever he decides.

to everyone feeling poorly.

The cold came suddenly didn't it. Sending good wishes to all those feeling poorly.
You can do it, miniealing.
And a medal of courage to miniwoolley.
We're choosing A levels here. Discussing the future. University courses. Career choices. I want to run and hide. Or travel back a few years. Compared to this choosing secondary school was a walk in the park.

Ealing that's exactly what's wrong with ds fingers crossed that she makes it to the exam