Circumventing Music Theory Grade 5

@Moomin sorry it's been a mad few days. The new GCSE requires some technical knowledge and I have found over the last 20 years of teaching it that those with a decent understanding of Theory have done much better in the listening papers. They know what a perfect cadence looks like on paper, so seem better able to hear it.

As others have said, some university courses do not require A level Music, but oddly they do want a Theory qualification as well as evidence of practical skills. Some of that may well be down to the vague and strange marking of some elements of the A level course (particularly composing). A couple of years ago, I met up with my old tutor from university. He was most impressed to hear that we put all our A level musicians through grade 8 Theory, and said that he would be happy to make unconditional offers to our students who had passed grade 8 theory and who had grade 7 or 8 in a practical exam.

There really is no need to spend months going through all the books to get grade 5 Theory. The papers have a very similar format year on year. Look at the questions that come up (Q7 always chords at cadential points, Q6 compose an 8 bar melody, Q5 scales etc.) learn how to answer those and you are sorted.

Generally the universities will want a high A level in Music. The conservatoires don't, entry is normally on audition.

For anyone still wanting to do Grade 5 theory, the new syllabus is hugely dumbed down now It's going to be far easier to pass it, and whole topics have been left out. I'm trying not to be cynical and assume it's because AB don't want people dropping out of (expensive) high grades by not getting G5 theory, or because it can then be marked electronically, saving them lots of money without actually reducing the fee.

The universities DS looked at for music all wanted A level music at either A or B. The exception was if your school/college didn't offer it as a subject in which case they would accept G8. I'm not saying that everywhere wants it but you will cut down your choices considerably if you want to study music without taking music A level.

And you don't even need A level music to read music at university!

No, not needed for GCSE, but playing to a standard around G4 and above (I think it is G4) can get extra marks for performance pieces.

but the sixth form our DD goes to has put a pass at G5 theory as an alternative prerequisite for a B at GCSE for entry to A level music.

No, not for GCSE. When looking at A level places we did come across one place that required G5 theory for A level music, if you didn't have it you were expected to take it in school at the same time as our A levels.

No. Our local sixth form college asks students to complete it by the end of their A level course. For your son's purposes right now, he has a recognised alternative.

Definitely not- there are no pre-conditions for GCSE. It would be of benefit, but tbh, for high level musicians, GCSE music isn't really recommended. They wouldn't need it for any reason I know of. E.g. if you were G7/8 pianist and had G5 theory, I do not know any schools that would turn you away for A level music.

Thanks herts

Eroica the series of books by Yin Yin Ng are good.

www.amazon.co.uk/Music-Theory-Young-Musicans-revised/dp/9671000312/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1505409404&sr=8-5&keywords=music+theory&tag=mumsnetforum-21

May I ask which theory books people recommend for G5? DD is doing Trinity in one instrument, so has avoided so far, but is currently preparing for G5 on her 2nd, doing ABRSM, so the theory will become relevant for us very soon. She is keen to do the theory, but I don't know where to start with materials. She's between teachers too, as she also has just begun secondary school.
Thanks.

Beyond, DS - abovementioned Trinity Jazz exam taker - got an A* in his music in the summer, with the best marks being in the compositions.

So he may not have 'the piece of paper', but having 'Musical Knowledge' as an option in Trinity exams - and possibly particularly the Jazz thing of improvising from limited written musical information, which implies knowledge of key signatures etc - does mean that he has 'working knowledge of Music Theory equivalent to at least grade 5 level' IYSWIM?

DD16 said she would not have got a high grade in her GCSE if she had not done a lot of the work with her piano teacher doing Grade 5 theory. ESPECIALLY the composition tasks and terminology.

My oldest two have trinity Grade 8s and no Grade 5 theory, but both did a lot of the actual work. DS1 said it was really useful for GCSE music.

Malbecfan, why do you think Grade Five theory is incredibly useful?

We haven't got that far yet things keep cropping up but I'm putting it on his learning plan for his CAT place so he will have no choice but to get on with it !!

Trumpetboysmum snap! My 12yo DS has got G7 Trinity but we (his music teacher and I) are making him go for G5 theory this time... it's hard work but we have almost completed the first practice paper. Can't wait until it's all over

I also have a reluctant 12 year old ds. I think he will do the theory this year ( but will just get on with it he won't want to work his way through all of the books) but only because at the moment he has decided that he wants to go to music college and maybe a specialist music school at some point. He has grade 7 ( trinity) and may well do that for grade 8 anyway . Certainly the theory exam is useful for some pupils and it's good to have the theoretical knowledge but I think having grade 5 theory as an exam is over rated and I bet lots of children have passed it and then promptly forgotten it all - I know I did surely it's better to enjoy playing and discuss and develop an understanding as you play / compose

DS is a Trinity Jazz musician who has discovered that one of the music colleges he might want to go to to study jazz post 18 appears to require grade 5 Theory.

He'll do it if he has to - but as he has now done GCSE music, is studying A-level music + 2 Grade 8s, and has always done 'Musical knowledge' as 1 option in his Trinity exams, it will probably be easier than if he was doing it at the 'normal' time.

quite a few places do a week long intensive summer course

you can also get various books (different people like different ones - don't have to use the ABRSM ones) and work through it at his own pace, teaching himself

Also it is apparently a bit easier now with the changes for the next session (not according to ABRSM ,but according to the theory teachers I know!)