what age to start piano if DC is keen?

As a teacher I personally prefer them at 7. Generally they learn in 6months what a 5yr old will take 18month to master. But depends on child. I have a 4yr old who's fab!

I think there's a lot to be said for starting on recorder. My DD did recorder lessons for a few years, got to about grade 5 standard, got bored of it and stopped - then chose her own instruments (guitar then sax then piano). Having played recorder was beneficial when starting guitar (and obviously even more so for sax) - and likewise, having played guitar was very helpful when starting piano.

With piano, you have 2 hands doing two different things, and your eyes are looking at 2 different lines of music at the same time. Those reasons make it sensible to wait until at least 7 and a fairly confident reader at the time they start.
A recorder is a good place to start if you have a burning desire to start your child playing an instrument younger, as you are only following one line of music, so begin to learn about things like where the notes go, the different lengths of notes, rests, bars, etc., but you get a pretty recognisable tune quite early on without needing particularly strong fingers or having your adult teeth through or any of the other things that you have to wait for, for some instruments.

Oh I had a look at that book once and found it most amusing ... I would never have got started following their advice! I followed my younger sister in learning the violin despite being tone deaf (very severe glue ear and speech delay). We'd had early Kodaly training which served me in good stead while my hearing slowly caught up!

You would definitely enjoy reading around the Suzuki method. It was never intended as a way to produce professional musicians, more to develop a "beautiful heart" in a child via the medium of music. Music should always be fun and enjoyable, never a "practice chore".

So - how soon to start a child "learning" music - you are doing it already by having music around you and it being some part of your lives.

Don't assume that piano will be the right instrument to start with, though it may be. If you find you have Suzuki trained teachers in range, ask to come and observe lessons (when the time is right for you and your child). If you like what you see then take it further.

If you decide on starting lessons "early" say 6 or under, I think it is very important to have a teacher who has experience and understanding of how to teach younger children and work with their parents. Not all great teachers are great with this age group.

Back to your first question. My youngest would have been "having a go" on our piano by the time he could reach it. We didn't start him on lessons until we "had to", perhaps around age 6, as I showed him a few things occasionally and left him to it. Learned violin from 4, joined the church children's choir age 5 1/2 (his choice, and preferred having access to printed music over learning by ear); started chorister training age 7.

He's now nearly 12 and approaching grade 8 potentially on violin and piano. He might well end up a musician; but I could also see him as an engineer.

I have read the book twice (20 years apart) and there's a lot of good stuff in it. I do find, though, that a lot of the personality stuff is based around sweeping generalisations/ stereotypes about the role of the instrument in a symphony orchestra. The author makes some very good points about things like the size of the child, energy, stamina and other physical characteristics.

My DD started the
piano at 4 yrs
Violin at 6 yrs
Double bass at 9 yrs

She is now 11 and loves playing them all. She's grade 5 on each of them/

Wow stage 8 in two years is amazing. You must be proud!!

And think of all the years of music lessons you've saved!!

It probably helps to start early if you are going to be a concert pianist, but vanishingly few pianists will reach this standard. For anyone else, starting later isn't necessarily an obstacle to becoming a competent pianist.

DD16 started two and a bit years ago and just passed the French equivalent of grade 8 ... And her teacher's current best student is another 16 year old who started piano 3 years ago and just passed a diploma-level exam with top marks.

My DM was a piano teacher, and generally recommended that children started at about age 7 or later. She occasionally took a particularly keen 5 or 6 year old, but that was rare

My dd started violin just before she was 6 when she asked to. She is motivated and enjoys practicing. Not how intrinsically musical she is but she works hard. Her brother is 5 and very keen to start violin too. I shall be interested to see how that goes as he is more musical but much more immature and has less of a work ethic ! Her other brother has no interest at all in learning an instrument formally but is likes to pick out tunes on the piano and loves African drumming at school. We shall see how it all turns out !!

Our school doesn't start children before 7. I guess they pick it up quicker a little older and aren't put off by enforced practicing.

Is it like writing and reading, as in you do lots of fine motor skill activities, read lots of stories but no point actually sitting them at a desk forcing them to write at a young age. Similarly isn't lots of live music, hearing music etc the main thing at infant age? We went to a lovely music group which focused on recognising beat, touching instruments, clapping time, different styles of music rather than formal instruction.

I would say it definitely depends on the child! I've never steered mine towards a certain instrument but encouraged them to have a go if they were interested. They love music because they chose to do it - but even so be prepared to chivvy!
I took the same approach to reading - read lots to them before school, made up stories with them and made sure they saw me reading and that they had lots of books. I didn't teach them to read and write before school because they didn't want to. When they started school they soon learned and became bookworms. Looking back, they can't remember learning to read and I suspect they can't remember how they learned to read music!

happily no, dd is summer born (August) and we felt she'd be somehow cheated of extra time of being a child without academic targets as she started school two weeks after turning four. So the learning process before school started was all around play and driven by her, we didn't formally teach her anything with a plan, she asked we answered. She knew some letters and numbers by the time she started school, she could obviously count and do simple addition.

She loved books and still does (she's 9 now) and reads huge amounts. Books, music and Lego are her love.

But we did nurture them. The moment she could read we ensure no day goes by without her reading to us and us to her (we were reading to her since she was a baby). The moment she started piano we ensured no day goes by without facilitating practice, 10 min initially now when she's imminently taking grade 5 piano and 3 clarinet exams it's more like an hour (minimum) to an hour and a half of music practice a day.

Dd's piano teacher doesn't take pupils before 6 yo but that is a general statement, she does an assessment lesson and if the child can sit and take information in for 30 min she takes them whatever the age. The youngest she had was a 4yo but while she could sit still and absorb info there wasn't much progress, it took her 3 years to get to grade 1.

The teacher we use says youngest she will teach is 7. She teaches at a prestigious music school as well and her view is 'let kids be kids'. They will pick things up a lot quicker at that age or older. So a younger kid may as well just play around without formal lessons until they are old enough or ready.

My DD first sat down at a friend's piano when she was 3. Never wanted lessons, has never had a lesson but has just sat her Higher Music exam playing a grade 7/8 piece. She's entirely self taught from phone apps and YouTube. We bought a rickety old piano when she was 12 and upgraded just over a year ago to a digital baby grand. She is naturally musically gifted, plays electric and acoustic guitar as well as the violin, and can play everything from complex classical and movie soundtrack stuff to rock, pop and indie on the piano (she plays a blinding version of Bohemian Rhapsody). So it really depends on your child and whether they want proper lessons, or just to tinker, or actually have no interest in music at all.

I started an instrument at 8 & until I changed my mind in y11 was on my way to music college. Most other friends did the same, including those who are professional.

It's about the dedication of the student.

You sound very balanced OP but not all parents who start very young are so balanced and end up pushing and driving their childrens sports, music, drama hobbies more.

Age seven

Agree with pp, it's an 'it depends on the individual child' thing.
I'm surprised your friend is so rigid - as a psychologist, she should know every child is different.
Eileen Joyce didn't start until 10. Much older than that would probably be 'too late' to become a professional, but lots of people are decent amateurs and play for the joy of it.
I'm doing grade 4 now, started at 11, was made to feel crap by the prodigies as a kid so gave up. My friend was a prodigy, started at 5 or 6, grade 8 at 12, advanced certificate and diploma while still at school. She had a mental breakdown and doesn't play at all now. Obviously that's an extreme case, I'm just saying starting young isn't everything.
Big hands aren't necessarily an advantage btw.
See how your DS develops. Enjoy your baby

I don't think there is such a thing as too late. Well, obviously it is too late for me to now start piano and become a concert pianist but isn't that a frame of mind? Who knows what I would actually achieve if I really really wanted it, I never heard of people not going to a piano recital because the pianist started piano late or is too old.

Back to children, I think the ideal age is when they are ready and want to do it. Music requires such a huge amount of practice (deceiving initially as 10 min a day seems to be enough in the early stages) and parental input initially that learning an instrument desire needs to come from the dc in my opinion.

Ideal age I'd say 5/6 for the traditional method (but even 7-10 is not "too late") earlier if the Suzuki method is used.

In our case dd started piano at 6 and second instrument at 8. Due to the experience reading music and being older she is grade 3 in a year after starting the clarinet so I don't think that starting the second instrument later held her back. We wanted piano playing to be properly established as a fist instrument before introducing a new instrument.

I do think dd wouldn't have been ready earlier than 6 at all. She progressed really quick on piano but that's because she could see results. If she would have started at 4/5 I think she would have stalled being so young and give up as no results were coming through.