January Music Thread

Verbal, not verval....

They say Kissin is asd... Which does not surprise me at all.... I read his piano teacher moved in to his house....
Disorganised, ah, your ds is probably into verval staff then! I read some research whete it was showing that the same part of the brain is responsible for some languages aspect (or was it speech? I don't remember now....) and musical ability....
Btw, I remeber there was a long thread about connection between math and music, will try to find link when at my computer.

loose you're kind, I will pm you dates just in case, I was just mentioning the tickets because we've been asked to promote it as their dream is to fill the hall

Very interesting chat! Music and maths? Music and languages? Music and creative writing? who knows. DS certainly loves languages hence he chose as GCSE options French and Latin (Spanish is just an added extra). As music engages the whole of the brain - or so they say - it must reinforce so many different areas, it's a ripple echo effect. One thing is clear: so many of the greats in music were also people who spoke several languages. Whether that's because they traveled and moved a lot or not, I don't know. Kissin taught himself Yiddish for the love of it (on top of speaking English, Russian, Hebrew and French).

My DD is really strong at maths but HOPELESS at arithmetic. Fortunately her maths teacher has recognised her potential at it, probably because maths teacher is also bad at arithmetic, so has persuaded DD that bad arithmetic does not necessarily equal bad maths. I don't know if there is a music/maths correlation though, DD knows lots of great musicians whose maths is hopeless.

My friend, who is piano teacher, also says that she usually has two types of abilities-one is creative - who are good at music but useless at maths concepts and those who are good at music and maths. Obviously these two categories have different approaches two - first is probably more intuitive, second is more analytical?

Just to throw a spanner in the works, DD is a good mathematician but her musical gift is more intuitive than analytic. For DD I would say music is closer to a language than to numbers, it's something that is absorbed not learnt.

Only ds seems to have an aptitude for languages so I'm told but is only in year 6 so only doing French at mo but has dabbled in some Italian. He is always told what a fantastic accent he has for both French and Italian. Re maths his year 5 teacher said he has "a somewhat indifferent attitude to maths"🤔. Some aspects of it he finds ok but others he struggles. He has problems processing information so this may be why.

Btw, it is not my opinion about patterns, but dd's teacher
My opinion is that either there is a connection between m & m, or, as Waffle suggested, it is cognitive skills related (never thought about it in this way but liked the idea)

How interesting disorganisedmummy. I was sure your ds was excellent at maths... Do you reckon it is him or not very good teaching?
How about languages?

Gillybeanz - sorry I missed your post about unhelpful comments by teachers. Agreed some don't engage brains before speaking. A friend of mine is fortunate enough to have a lovely indoor swimming pool. She was told by a PE teacher 'i can't understand why you are so rubbish as swimming as you have a pool at home'

Stringchild I say improvising but he'll change the odd note here or there or do a trill or a double stop. He won't write it on he music but he likes to do different things with a piece! Is that improvising??

Never, agreed, many times I wonder mine finds maths easier because that is the only subject we could help her and did. To be honest, anything can be learnt, just if you like to learn it and has been prioritising it and put enough work. Some could naturally learn certain things faster (at certain time) though.

Disorganised - oh i would def let him; for a young string player to be comfortable improvising is a great thing. Last year at cello day at Trinity Laban, dd's group had to improvise around the room and dd has to at NYJC days - its a real mind bender for a lot of string players it seems, but a great way to practice

"I do feel that mathematicians can be taught the rudiments of music fairly easily, but that it doesn't work the other way!"

I would (nearly) agree with that. Maybe it is not that hard to teach the rudiments of mathematics if you get the 1-1 an hour a week and plenty of practice in between ...

Hi all,such an interesting discussion. I've also heard that there is a link between music and maths.Can I chuck my opinion in?

Ds really struggles with maths but that may be to do with his autism. However he is very creative in a musical way. And I would agree with Only that it's all to do with seeing patterns. He can't draw or anything but he can play a melody (violin) and improvise around it. He can harmonise it to though not sure if that's the right terminology. He's currently working on his audition pieces for Guildhall and really wants to improvise with them but not sure whether he should!!

Speaking for myself as a mathematician and amateur musician I would agree that pattern-spotting is common to both. However, even within mathematics there are many branches and it's not uncommon at all that mathematicians who are brilliant at one branch are hopeless at another. And also the performance of music, while involving pattern-spotting, also requires a lot of skills you don't require in mathematics.

So my conclusion is that a person is good at whatever a person is good at.

Oh, I am behind again, and missed an interesting discussion....

Dd's teacher's opinion (I don't necessarily agree with it but he is a professional musician, so may have some observations from experience) is that it is not a connection between music and maths but both have pattern and people who are good at one will probably good at another. And this is also why there are so many autistic people seem to be good at music-as ASD people are usually good at patterns.

My friend, who is piano teacher, also says that she usually has two types of abilities-one is creative - who are good at music but useless at maths concepts and those who are good at music and maths. Obviously these two categories have different approaches two - first is probably more intuitive, second is more analytical? Smth like that....

Just opinions...

MrsW DD also loves algebra. She's good at applied maths but I think she prefers it when it's more abstract. She is less keen on stats and probability.

I don't think there is any strong correlation between music and languages, but I do think that having a "good ear" is helpful for both. DD has a noticeably better accent than the other students in her Spanish class (it's so good spanish people generally assume she has spanish speaking family), and it's definitely not down to bilingualism because there are other bilingual kids in the group.

Yes, 2017 resolution is foreign language to catch up. Havent got any plan for it though. I might do a simple thing that sending her to our French friends who live in South France and speak little English. I am hoping for her to be able to speak couple of foreign languages, Doesnt matter which one.

First piano lesson is back today. We planned for couple pieces of around grade 6 standard but non-syllabus ones, will find out which one tonight. No exam planned for this term for piano though. Violin, I havent had the connection needed with our new teacher yet. She hasnt been as much responsive on emails as I'd like to. Last time I was told that scales are good, bowing and certain techniques are needed. To be honest, she writes down homeworks, I just have to read it and figure out what is what.

Checking in :)

We are i the throws of A level mocks and a prolonged cold which annoyingly took the solos away at Xmas. DD2 did a nice little solo in the epiphany service though so voice ( and hopefully confidence) returning. Britten Ceremony of carols at the end of the month too!

Dunno if she's got many music exams planned. Much muttering about grade 8 of various sorts but not much actual practice! I think she probably should do at least 1 before uni just so she has the paper evidence...

Also applying for choral scholarships.

DS1's French teacher links music with languages. (He's not very good at French but does a lot of music. )

Personally I think such links are unhelpful on an individual level and lead to hurtful comments like what was said to gilly's DD. My stock reply is "he works hard at whatever subject"

. i actually think the concentration you need for music helps the brain develop skills in other areas of study anyway

Totally agree Loose and this is one of the main reason I want DD to keep at it.

Misti agree too, I think it is maturity and also boredom and lack of seeing the connection of maths and real life. Thinking of it DD started enjoying it since I gave her real life problems in year 3 to link the concept to useful situations.

Agree maths is linked to music here. As most of you know, Miniprada has also passed her GCSE in Spanish aged 10 (neither parent is Spanish) so also agree languages are also linked....

Mistigri I was the same as your daughter with Maths. At primary school (back in the 80s) it was all about learning your times tables and doing pages and pages of hand written sums which I hated and I honestly thought I was rubbish at maths. Things got much better at secondary school mostly because we were allowed to use calculators which freed my brain up for things like algebra which I loved. Managed to get an A grade at GCSE and did A Level Maths too. I thought I was weird, but glad I'm not the only one.

Maths (and science) is my DS's passion and I know that is why he has picked up music theory so easily. I don't know how he is with languages yet.