Guiders Staff Room Part 3

There are only 7 girls in our unit harder, and none of them are hot on planning for themselves. Although they are getting better with practise!

I like the idea of an election! Wonder how well that'll work with one patrol of 3, and one of 4 though . Suppose we can see...

I don't like the idea of chopping and changing much. I'm hopeful we'll have more girls, and a 3rd (probably small again) patrol by Christmas ish so one of the P.S's could then be promoted giving someone else a turn at an 'important' job iyswim?

Urgh. Way to much goes into this sometimes...I tie myself in proper knots hoping not to upset anyone

inflagrante that's impressive! Well done!

Regarding PL we ask the girls to choose, which I believe is what's supposed to happen, then the PL chooses the PS. The girls have used various methods to choose, and the PL usually chooses a girl who wanted to be PL to be PS. Unfortunately at my Guides we don't actually give much responsibility to the PL, as Go For It's are very hit and miss, and we don't involve the girls in planning as much as we probably should. We're also a small unit (biggest we've been in the last few years was 15 girls) and at times we've not had enough girls to have separate patrols.

At Brownies, we just have the oldest four girls as sixers and the next four oldest as seconders. We move the girls around when needed to promote girls as others move up to Guides. Again we're not really as "Girl led" as we should be, but we do try to give the sixers a bit of responsibility (they take the salute at the start, looking after new girls, sometimes we'll give the sixers instructions for an activity then they tell their six)

Took a team of 5 brownies on the county competition hike yesterday, they came joint 2nd with a time of 1h24, I'm really proud of them. Had to grin at the one who turned round and said to me afterwards "can we do this next year?" She's not 8 until the end of the month!

In my daughter's unit, they used to do it by taking turns for a term at a time. The leaders made the choices. They did it in the name of fairness but, ironically, the girls didn't really like it because the constant chopping and changing was unsettling and girls would be just getting into the role when they had to hand it over. I think an election within the patrol would be better - with a real election coming up, you could turn it into a democracy event and have hustings!

How do you decide PL's with your Guides? I'm hoping we can do this on Tuesday but a bit unsure how to go about it even though we've done a lot of team based activities this half term so they can try to work out who should be 'in charge' for themselves.

I'm not active in Girlguiding at the moment, but just wanted to say to ILookedInTheWater that those were exactly the things that drove me out. It seems so hard to build a good leadership team; over the years I had some great assistant leaders and unit helpers but they tended to move on pretty quickly as they had to relocate for jobs and the like. At one point I had a few parents who would commit to help from time to time and, crucially, would turn up, but when their daughters moved up, the next generation of parents were far less amenable - less willing to help, more likely to cancel at the very last minute. What made it worse for me was that my district commissioner was no help - when I contacted her for advice on some very specific issues, she didn't even reply to my emails.

I think it's ok to quit. I felt a bit conflicted about it - for more than a decade, I'd been trying to teach the girls resilience and thought I should show some myself - but my experience was that Girlguiding does not treat its volunteers well. More and more demands were being placed on us, without the structure of support above and around the unit (management committee, treasurer type roles) that Scouts seems to have. In the end, I concluded that another thing we try to teach the girls is don't be afraid to stand up for yourself, don't accept being treated badly, and (ironically and sadly) for me to do that as a leader I had to quit.

Thanks so much guys!

@MillicentMargaretAmanda

If the daughter is a Brownie she counts in section ratios and doesn't need a separate leader.

When I've taken my daughter out in uniform she's been part of the unit and included in the usual ratios, I've not had to do anything special because we're related iyswim. Even if she's not usually a part of that unit.

So, should be fine!

I'd have said yes, but I'm still feeling my way around ratios. Brownie in unit going on trip, or a different one?

Lucysmam I think waiting lists are a torment! I think I'll be able to fit in all 6 girls eligible in Sept, but there's another 3 for Jan, and I just can't see any of the ones turning 10 in the autumn term leaving!

I'm doing my going away licence in Sept. Got the place booked. Now my other leader has decided she has to attend her niece's hen on the Friday...

Dumb ratio question that I don't want to ask on FB because I should know.
Brownie leader takes group to big residential event. We can take 6 girls to one leader. One of the girls potentially going will be her daughter who will be a Brownie by this point. I know if the child was not a Brownie we'd need an extra adult but as she is, are we ok having that leader in charge and the 6 girls? Online handbook is not being massively helpful!!

I've been looking at my list again this morning Inflagrante, almost all my girls will be 7 by the end of January . I'm going with left by the end of the term when they turn 7 for the moment...may need a re-think though, I think I'll end up with 8/12 seven yo's at one point if I do that, and no movement on my list!

Does anyone have any good team work games? Something to fill approx an hour and help the girls work out who the leaders in their patrols are Vs who the followers are iyswim?

I'd like to have picked PL's with them by half term (which is 2 weeks away here).

Finally finished Mod 1 & 4 for Guides...Going Away next (this one scares me a bit )

lost you all! Had a lovely evening with my unit, we hiked to the Old Church ruins tonight. Girls all enjoyed it.

Finally heard back from my erratic attendee, she's decided to stop. It's no surprise to us, she struggled as we meet in a large hall, which is quite echo-y and her hearing impairment meant she couldn't hear us very well over the girls general chit chat. This place leaves us in an interesting place. We weren't expecting any to leave this side of half term, and had agreed to not start any until Sept, but with this one it's a bit daft not to start one, there's 10 weeks to go. However the next one as it stands immediately has sen to sufficient degree to leave us concerned about the effect on the other 23 girls. Think another chat with my DC is coming.

Can't remember who asked about Guides... DD1 went up aged 10y 2m, and settled in fine. As mentioned the guide leaders are quite accustomed to balancing the needs of the 10yos against the needs of the older girls. As they outgrow Brownies they become bored, I've currently got 2 just turned 10 and 1 almost 10 who are so ready to move on! As for what they do... as with all groups, it depends on the leader. Dd1's unit isn't as out and abouty/active as I'd like, but she enjoys it, so it's not all bad.

Your situation sounds a nightmare Lucysmam! Totally agree move the rainbows on at 7. Change is hard, but it needs to happen.

Really cross with the village school, they've put their Y5/6 performance on for 2 evenings last week but one of term. performances are on Tuesday and Thursday. yep, brownies is Tues, Guides and cubs Thurs. FFS. Technically neither of us can do that Tues, dd1 is Y6, the other leader's dd Y5. Dp was supposed to be running a fire prep session that night. Gutted dd's been put in the position she feels she has to choose between school and guides/helping at brownies

Don't you love it when a parent is 20 minutes late without a word of apology?

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I certainly wouldn't want to hold her back. I just think she might get a shock if she has to use even just a smidgen of initiative! And I do wonder if the older girls would find her rather tiresome to deal with (although I know they can often 'mother' a younger child). We'll investigate locally.

UnderneaththeArchers As a Guide leader, I'd definitely suggest that you speak with the Guide leader, and also ask if your DD can go for a visit. We automatically issue an invitation to our feeder Brownie units for any girl who will be 10 by the beginning of term to come for a visit near the end of each term. As we have girls from up to four units coming, it gives them the chance to see that there are usually at least a couple coming up at the same time so they're not the only newbie, and often they recognise someone through school or another activity, which helps.
The leaders will be used to incorporating the needs of the just-10 year olds and the older girls. Each Patrol chooses their activities for their own Patrol times according to their own interests, so we adapt for the particular girls we have in that way. It can be a logistical challenge, having four or five different activities going on at the same time, but as each Patrol is organising it, they should all be happy with what they're doing. Whole unit activities - they do them to their own levels.
If you think about it, there is also a huge difference between a just-7 and a 10 year old, and it works at Brownies. I've just taken in two 10 year olds, one of whom is the Brownie leader's daughter. Mum was adamant that her daughter wasn't ready to move so I said she could wait for another term, but still invited her to the visit evening for the earlier opportunity as well. The last of the Guides hadn't even left that meeting before mum was pulled back into the hall by the daughter to tell me that she was ready after all - and could she please start asap.
The Brownie programme is intended to last 3 years and so most girls are ready for the new challenge at 10. Sometimes they just need the chance to try it to feel confident about it. And the Guide programme is designed with 10 years olds in mind as much those pushing 14, so it is actually quite easy to make it work with their needs.

Trying to plan for three different units is a nightmare right now. I need some guiders ribena

If she is particularly young for her age why not delay the move for a term if her Brownie unit has space. Ten is only the youngest age they can move up after all

Thank you for your comments. I do appreciate it's impossible to answer really as every group is different. I suppose I also wonder how my very-young-for-her-age child would get on with girls who are really at a different stage in life (although I appreciate the benefit of doing so). I work with Y9's every day and they are, of course, young women not children.

I"m place marking so I don't lose you all again!

I don't get as much time to mooch about here or on fb these days & you keep dropping off TIO :(

Hope you're all doing well? (I'll find my last post and catch up after work tomorrow).

I'm having a Rainbows waiting list nightmare...handful of almost 7yo's at the top, 7yo's in unit who don't want to move to our other local unit (minutes up the road, same night and time), no spaces in our Brownies and none due to move on apart from the one with SN who is happy where she is for the moment so everyone's agreed she can just move if/when she is ready to.

Have agreed with DC that until the end of the half term after they turn 7 is reasonable to keep the girls as Rainbows then offer to either hand membership numbers & names to our Brown Owl or to Brown Owl at the other Brownies. Otherwise I'll end up with a Rainbows unit full of 7yo's .

Team player badge with Guides: trying to get them to think about the key parts of being a team and try to identify who would make good PL's. One patrol work very well; the other have the argumentative whingey one, the keep everyone happy one (mine ) , the lazy "I can't do any of it myself one" and the other just sort of gets on and does but I'm not convinced she's leadership material. But then again, maybe she is.

We're off to Lush to tie in with the Glamorama GFI and the cinema to tie in with Lights, Camera, Action; hopefully. Then mod 1 & 4 are done again and I can think about going away license.

New ALiT is keen to get cracking with her LQ and Going Away license. Just waiting on her DBS check, she didn't ring the lady who does them because she thought her one for work would cover it & didn't realise you need one for each thing these days. Bit of a pita but hopefully it'll not take long now.

Hello ladies, is there room for one more on here? UnderneaththeArcher, does your daughter have the Brownie adventures book? If so ask her Guider if she can try the Brownies Go For it at the back of said book, or do it at home anyway. There is a lot of info there about Guides but nothing beats an actual visit if possible. Most Guide units are happy to have Brownies visit.

Our Brownies uses sixes quite a bit so the Sixers do get a reasonable chance to lead others and direct things, but there's definitely more of it at Guides - each patrol is responsible for planning their own activities (with support from the leader) on their GFI nights, and also bringing in the stuff they need to complete it. But other nights are planned by the leader, eg they've just done their first aid badge and had St Johns people in to run it.

DD doesn't start till after half term, but that's what I know about Guides so far! :o

I am Cubs (mixed) rather than Brownies, but I see a big jump for our Cubs going up to Scouts (equivalent jump as Brownies to Guides).

Cubs - Leaders organize it all, we do use patrols but not very effectively.

Scouts - the Patrols organize most of it, and Leaders are really there for guidance (our Scouts though stay until 18 so Patrol Leaders are pretty experienced).

We do camp every year for 1 weekend, and have 2 separate overnights in hostels. But Scouts start with 2 nights camping at Easter and have a 10 day camp in summer. Sometimes they also have a hostelling trip during the year.

It really does depend a lot though on the group as well, and the leaders involved and the children involved too. Some are far more inclined to do indoors activities and more crafty things, whereas others spend a lot more time outdoors where possible.

When I was a Guide (before Noah built his Ark!), we had a 1 week camp in the summer but no other nights away. We rarely went out on activities - a very occasional hike to the local forest. We occasionally participated in competitions (I remember making a fish pie for 1!) against other groups. But our leaders were much more like the Cub leaders in our pack - organized it all. Patrols existed, and worked on skills together and badges, but there was very little leadership required of PLs and APLs except to line the Guides up straight for drill and collect the weekly subs. Whereas another local group had loads of outdoor activities and PLs were far more involved in planning those so it wasn't such a burden on leaders.