New Year Music and Musicians Thread

"What a strange way to form a new relationship, almost petulant in its approach!"

Well put. Via work I once spent a little time immersed in county peris and I think there is a higher proportion of haughty, petulant types in their ranks. Of course the majority were perfectly reasonable and delightfully quick-witted, so the overall exercise was still quite refreshing.

I'm very content with the relationship with DD's piano teacher. Here in state-school world we actually had a genuine choice(!) between two primary schools and one little factor that influenced our decision was the HT's promise of a very good peri. They are very good and when DD moved to secondary school we switched to private lessons with that teacher rather than risk $deity-knows-who at secondary for the sake of saving a few extra quid a week. Teacher is older than me and has less of the 'nice' sentimentality installed by default in younger generations, but she's lovely in a terser, quirky way. By-and-by she sincerely thanked us for bringing DD to her i.e. she enjoys teaching DD and that shows. What more can you ask for?

There were some other children in DD’s primary class also learning piano and their parents didn’t question just moving to lessons at the secondary with [$deity-knows-who]. I don’t get it because in my view that teacher, pupil and parent relationship is critical.

Morning everyone! Just thought I'd share the lovely violin shopping experience yesterday with miniprada. Taking a break from practice etc, We went at the recommendation of the violin teacher to see Russell at Woodbridge Violin and it was absolutely charming. A proper craft shop (they make and restore too) and he was just so patient too. I did phone in the morning to check he would be in and to explain we needed a new 3/4 size and our budget. When we arrived he had set up in the private room around 10 violins varying to £300 under and one at £400 over (I had said to show us instruments just slightly over) no prices on any of them to avoid swaying mini's decision. We spent around 2 hours trying them all, selected one and then sorted a new bow and case. He was very complimentary about mini's playing (he loves to see kids giving it 'welly' on a violin) which she loved. Instrument cost is fully refundable if the teacher doesn't like it against another one and best of all, the full cost of this one will be the p/ex against the next one and he invited us back annually to check the violin and re-hair the bow (he also does this by post for those of you who need this). So we are now the proud owners of our first mid 1850's French violin and mini is so excited she has played solidly (without being asked!) today already for two hours. Did not feel under pressure at all to purchase or to select the most expensive items (quite the reverse) and we had a sensible chat about bow costs and case costs so really felt as if we had guidance rather than a sales pitch (we ended up with the cheapest case and a mid price bow). Mini loved seeing the workshop and horse hair hanging and asked a million questions.... Woodbridge is a charming place so we had a lovely lunch afterwards

On another note, apparently a re-mark in the theory would only yield us the fee back not a new score so 18th June here we come....

Hope everyone is enjoying the sunny weather. Fab here in the south

But you don't, or shouldn't, only polish pieces because they are going to be played for an exam!!! They could be prepared for a performance, for example. DD has spent a fair bit of time this year working on a relatively simple (grade 4 ish?) duet written by a contemporary composer with local links. She went to a workshop recently where they worked on the fine detail with the composer himself, and there's a public premier of the work in May. That sort of experience is far more valuable than a 10 minute exam.

Musicmom My first reaction was to think why on earth resit a grade exam? (the same as everyone else). However I have just sat through DD2's practice. She learns and memorises very quickly but then gets stuck and is very reluctant to put in the work to polish the details. Perhaps the new teacher is intending to use the exam process to build the polishing skills. It would be hard to do this at a higher level but may not be quite so frustrating at your DD's current level. The carrot effect of seeing the marks and comments gained as a result might be quite a good reinforcer?

Both mine have found / are finding grade 5 quite frustrating / rewarding as I think it is the stage when the foundations need to be secure before you can really start to play more freely.

As an aside: Dd's teacher is focusing a lot on tehnique, she got another student recently from a teacher focusing a lot on sight reading practice (a lot of the lesson was focusing on this). The new student is great at sight reading but tehnique is lacking. Probably the other teacher would have addressed that later but at this point in time due to the different teaching methods it looks like the other DC hasn't been taught properly.

A period of consolidation is fine, but resitting an exam is just weird.

DD's new piano teacher had her working on easier pieces initially - it was good for her to work on a few pieces that she could master in 2-3 weeks, leaving more time and mental energy for the fine detail. But that's very different to committing to an exam resit. Surely there are more productive and motivating ways of using lesson and practice time?

I think every teacher has a different teaching method and will probably not be 100% happy with the way the previous teacher addressed certain areas. Nothing wrong to concentrate on weaker areas such as sight reading, tehnique or whatever the new teacher feels it hasn't been properly taught or up to their standard but I can't see the benefit of re-sitting the same grade.

The new teacher can always say that it would take longer to get to the next grade as there are issues to be addressed by their standards.

As an example Dd's teacher was not high on sight reading practice unless she'd notice a problem. From her point of view you could learn to sight read just by playing various repertoire. However now she can see my DD needs proper sight reading focus as she is lacking behind in that area. If I would be to change her teacher now the new one would certainly focus on this (as Dd's teacher will anyway) but I wouldn't be happy if they would suggest re-sitting grade 3 just to get better marks in that area. I would though understand if they would tell me it will take a while till next exam as this need addressing.

What a strange way to form a new relationship, almost petulant in its approach! There's nothing wrong in re-focusing on basics, using other G5/equivalent pieces but discounting a practical exam just sat, without even waiting for results and insisting on a re-sit is a negative message, no matter how much the technique may need improving.

Not quite the same, but my DD had completed all 3 G8 pieces to a reasonable level, then changed schools and had 2 terms to sit the exam under the old syllabus deadline. The decision was to not sit, as the new teacher wanted to go back to basics, and let her settle into senior school without exam pressure or rushing. Nothing really lost except the cost of G8 music...ouch, she learned 3 very beautiful pieces that will remain in her repertoire, possibly getting picked up as and when she needs to perform. And her new teacher got to teach her 'her way', that will hopefully net a better result as and when it comes back on the schedule.

The only reason I can see in taking the same exam twice is improving the marks by playing the pieces better following technique improvment, so maybe the teacher is trying to show you he is the right teacher by doing so.

However I don't see why he couldn't do that by moving on to grade 6 and get the high marks in that exam.

Also what if your DD gets a high distinction now as you haven't yet got the results, let's say she gets 142 points, what would be the benefit of sitting the same exam twice?

ABRSM specifically don't mark or comment on technique anyway and you don't get instrument specific examiners (which can be a pain when you have a pianist examiner commenting on restricted dynamics on a 1/16 size violin, that's all a little instrument hasavailable!) so an exam isn't a helpful setting for targeting improved technique I think.

Why can't he establish a baseline starting with G6? I'd be working out the cost of the exam plus the music plus the accompanist for rehearsal plus the accompanist for the exam and asking again why he thought it was necessary. Parents do not have access to a money tree and that money could be going on lessons that will move her forward. I thought that teachers were usually pretty good about knowing what mark their pupils were going to get in exams, the mark sheet usually tells them what they already knew.

I can't see what is in this for your daughter or for the teacher.

*Musicmom
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What instrument? Seems an odd idea ...

Thanks all - it seems to be non-negotiable.....I think he has decided that DD needs to do the exam with 'proper' technique as some sort baseline to move forward on. To be honest I am equally besmised that her technique could have been so questionable but I don't really have a clue. And I must admit we have seen a fairly big impact from only two lessons and DD is happy. It just feels rather making a point to re-do an exam without even knowing the result......

Well I would spit blood and DD venom, but neither of us are enchanted by the exam experience. My initial thought was that teacher wants [whatever it is they're doing] independently assessed and the child interest's aren't exactly central to this. Perhaps not, but it still seems odd.

I'd want to hear the teacher's views on why he wants to retake G5 and what he sees the learning outcomes being. I'm struggling to see the benefit of sitting the same exam twice (unless it's a poor performance at G8).

Any thoughts on this please - DD moved to a new teacher towards the end of last term; new teacher has already stripped her technique down to basics and has said he wants DD to re-do ghee grade exam in the summer term with him (pehatever the result of e last exam (we are still awaiting results from March for the same grade!). It will be all new pieces (not yet selected). DD doesn't seem to mind but I sort of do (not least on cost grounds - this is G5) ..........

Misti - what a sense of adventure - good for DD!

I think she'll probably send in her entry but (realist hat on) I'd be surprised if anything came of it - the entrants are mostly adult groups with a fair amount of experience and probably some pro recordings. I'd be astonished if they were to take a risk with a 14 year old singer-guitarist with some GarageBand demos who has played maybe six solo shows in her musical career - but I suppose you never know. The fact that they require a minimum repertoire of 45 minutes of original music must surely narrow the field, but probably not enough for her to have a chance. (The three finalists each play a 45 min set at a fair-sized venue in the town. It's a lot to ask of a 14 year old, especially playing solo - if I were on the jury not sure I'd want that responsibility).

Unfortunately due to time constraints there won't be time to record and submit her newest material, but we have decent recordings of three songs, two of which I think are pretty fine pop/folk songs.

Mistigri what exciting news! I hope she goes for it, the experience will be amazing!
Ds's more pressing concern is the maths revision he's not doing!
Green your DD is inspired - I now want to go to Hamley's and buy the drawing board! Good that she's trying out so many things. And don't mention swimming. I had to drag mine to swimming lessons amid huge moaning and we were all glad to give up once they could swim a length!

Mistigri: thats wonderful, fingers crossed for tonight!

Loose I imagine it would be hard to do both at A level! I did art at both O and A level (showing my age) but it was complicated to timetable the A level with my other options and I mostly on my own. As far as I remember my school didn't even offer music - not that I'd have done it anyway.

News here is that DD has reached the final stages of a local music competition for musicians and groups playing original music. She has to submit a CD with three original recordings by Wednesday, and she needs to have a set of a minimum of 45 minutes of original compositions, no covers or remixes. I've just gone through her song list and she has 19 complete songs of which maybe 14 she still likes enough to want to play ... Might be a challenge to have them all performance-ready by late April though especially with a week away for a music camp. Will see tonight if she's still game ...

Hi Loose: I thinking among academic subjects, swimming, sports, music then arts is the hardest for parent to give them support. They were born with it, so much we could buy books, paying for lessons then not much else we can do. I wish him the best, being good at it is hard, of all I think its hardest as so little qualitative measurement available rather than concepts and personal perspective. Some could turn easily from brilliant to rubbish and the other way round. For us, I'd like she paints when she likes as she still have time and still young where she could "play" and treat them as "toys"( she was really into oil painting for 8 months and is now still into it but switch into water painting when I bought her the books before this holiday-my mistake-or not- as I wanted to give her a treat for the hard work she had done for learning grade 3 piano in 2 months). We went to Hamleys on Saturday and she was allowed to choose a toy and she choose a drawing board where you draw anything on the glass and switch the "on" button then it will flash at night. She hasnt left it for 1 second since we got home after that.

Mistigri: that is exactly what I am worried. I dont have any ambition for her in term of extra curri however if she does it then complete it in high quality, then she has it as a skill. I definitely will try to encourage her to learn all grades for both instruments and it doesnt matter how long does it take. At least then she has the basic skills( hoping similar like swimming) where she could always use it once she grows up. Similar to drawing, if she is into it then we could start the lesson again but I'd like she learns to draw well to certain level. Doing things half heartly and dropping things too easy is the thing I fear/dislike much and I am trying hard to let it not happen.

Mistigri I see what you mean and I think people don't appreciate just how much skill and knowledge, let alone sheer persistence, is needed to be really good at art. DS1 was on a school workshop at the V&A recently and the curator/conservator told them straight that if you do art, that's what you do - i.e. art and nothing else! It will be interesting to see how far DS gets with both, but my suspicion is that the workload for art is going to cause him more headaches than for music since he already spends a lot of time outside school on music!

green My DD was a bit of a butterfly at your DD's age, she had a very low boredom threshold and she wasn't very persistent. She started her first instrumenr at 5 and dropped at 10, without showing any signs of particular talent. Not all musical children are precocious.

loose I suspect that art is less valued because (a) it's not subject to grade exams and (b) there are no school places or scholarships at stake, probably because musical ability is a good proxy for academic ability whereas this is less true of the other arts.