Musical devices-pros and cons

dear W&L.....you are a really dedicated parent.

re left hand palm & neck of violin issue.... take a paper clip, fold it out so that one half is at a right angle to the other (you have a 90 degree bend). Tape one part to the neck of the violin with the other bit hanging down... then the child cannot put the palm to the neck because of the obstruction caused by the bit of the paperclip that hangs down.

I bought DS a similar device two years ago and the teacher was happy about it. It turned out not working very well if playing to 5th position as you need to move the bow close the bridge.

MightHaveDoneBetter,s " matches stuck into blue tack " is good way to overcome the problems. You should patent it!

I've always thought of those little props like the Bowzone or the bowbuddy as 'reference points' - sort of like using a map when you are in the car or maybe using a compass. How are you supposed to know where you are (kinesthetically speaking) if you don't have some way of making an estimate?

On the other hand - I would worry about those specific toys because (when your child is using them) the body will try (consciously or not) to adjust to those toys which can create unnatural tensions - especially with the bowzone. Furthermore, a child can become unnecessarily reliant on those little 'reference points' thereby falling into sloppy habits.

(Incidentally, a well known RNCM violin teacher uses a metal type gadget similar to the bowzone .. but again - it can mess up the shoulder/collarbone/shoulder blade alignment)

If one of my students really liked one of those toys, I would say fine - but you use it for 3 minutes (or whatever) of your practising and then do the equivalent time without. Novelty can be a wonderful thing when it comes to practising.

as for THOSE specific gadgets, it might even be better to do the matches stuck into blue tack - either side of the strings to create a 'pathway' (an errant bow will knock one or both matches over) .. and for bowbuddy, a corn plaster strategically placed on the heel of the bow (for the thumb) along with more blue tack on the stick (as a reference for the index finger & one for the pinky too - or another corn plaster) Much less expensive, much more transient and while not as 'gadget-y' does essentially the same sort of trick - in providing reference points.

Lastly, I'm not sure that it's helpful for teachers to make ultimatums. Discussions (during the paid for lesson time) might be more helpful and maybe more respectful of the child too ...... everybody (parent and teacher included) can learn something new....

Sorry, I perhaps was more blunt than I intended. Grade 6 - 8 are the levels for preparation for a conservatoire environment and most DC do these at secondary age having already passed grade 5 music theory and matured with age. I just don't see the rush to progress through grades at the expense of fun and enjoyment and letting a child learn at their own pace a bit.
The violin is an exercise in frustration even for the most talented and enthusiastic and it can take time to learn to love its discipline was all I was getting at.

Agree - trust teacher or move on.
Also if she is too young to practice independently then she is too young for grade 3.
A mirror and a pencil are the best practice tools.
As she grows and matures her limbs, muscles, fingers and strength will change. These factors all necessitate relearning technique.
I teach my own DC rather than have disagreements with a teacher. This has its own pitfalls and I worry about pushing too hard or over supervising. You sound more invested as an interested parent than I am as a teaching parent.

www.musicinpractice.com/36-beginner-bow-hold-games/

(not affiliated!)

Actually, the sensible thing is to have a conversation with the teacher, asking what can be done to help DD's bowhold, since you know it's not correct at present. While I don't use devices for playing, I'm all in favour of practising with pencils, doing bowhold games and things like that...

I think 1805's point is valid...

If you start doing things like that, against the teacher's advice, you are basically saying you know better than the teacher. That not only creates a bad relationship between you and the teacher, it undermines the teacher's authority with your child. So, the way I see it, there are two options:

1. Continue with the same teacher, trusting that he/she knows what he/she is talking about, and not using additional 'devices' in home practice.
2. Find a teacher who uses gadgets and swap to him/her.

I tend not to fuss too much with bowhold to begin with, concentrating on not gripping tight and on getting the bow going nice and straight, producing a good sound. The right way is what works ;-)

OP - either trust your teacher or move on. Please don't carry on with a teacher you don't trust.

Not all teachers suit all pupils, and vice versa too.

Please don't undermine the teacher though, that is just not nice. Just change teacher.

Worriedandlost,

I was 17 when my technique got totally picked apart and reconstructed in four lessons and lots of practise (I had to fly to England for those lessons). The teacher I had then was top-class, but he made a very valid point to me: that everyone's body is different, that this was a way of playing but he could only demonstrate the concept and the sound and expected me to put the work in and figure out how to reproduce it for myself. He explained things like how changing the contact point, speed, pressure and angle of the bow changes the tone you produce, for example, but expected me to go practise until I could consistently get the particular sound I wanted. I learnt that there are different sorts of vibrato, that the width and speed can be controlled and that doing this changes the sound you produce. And so on. But it was always "this is a way of doing things; it works for me."

I'm now in my 30s. I probably don't play as well now as I did then, technically, but if I wanted to, applied myself and really practised, I could be a lot better even without an external teacher - because I understand more completely what I am trying to do and the physics involved.

The chin thing - I had shockingly bad technique for a while, and used to squeeze the violin and bow with a lot of tension. It caused me real pain at one point and I still have vestiges of those problems. Most children know that they don't need to squeeze, but I was paranoid about dropping the instrument, I guess. Because of that, learning to play without my chin on the violin at all has been really liberating, reduced my tension all-round and means that now even when I do play chin-on (most later music, which requires shifting/vibrato), I don't do the nasty squeezing thing that I did in my early teens.

Any time worried

I still don't hold the bow "properly", except when demonstrating to beginners, which involves a lot of pencils and the bow creature who has one floppy and one point year, often with my left hand (I mirror things sometimes). There is no proper bowhold - you can't so flying spiccato with the same hold as martele. There are bad things - concave thumb, pinky far away from other fingers, tension and lack of flexibility, wrist incorrectly positioned. The key is lack of tension and good alignment. After that, go with what works.

Fwiw my chin only goes on the fiddle when I'm shifting or playing very high. This, for me, is effective in eliminating the tension I used to create when I felt I had to squeeeeeeeeze the violin between chin and shoulder, it is a little unorthodox in classical circles but normal for early and folk. For me, that's important, since I don't like pain.

Sorry worried, completely lost the thread there.

I have been thinking about your dilemna and had started to question my previous posts before your last post iyswim.

I stand by the point of having complete faith and trust in your teacher otherwise the whole situation is futile.

However, I agree not all teachers are good and some can be good but not necessarily for you.

What do you like about the teacher? You said she/he was a good teacher? In what way? What would you change and why?

I think if you ask these questions you'll begin to see the answer to your problems. my dd had several teachers before we found the right ones. Not for the same instrument

You can pm me if you like. I'm not an authority but have picked up so much over the years and know lots about dh's teaching too.
I have also listened to various family friends and dh's colleagues who teach in all the conservatoires. It's amazing what you pick up as a mere spectator