Son losing motivation. Do we need a new teacher?

I don't know if this is any help ... -- for preventing boredom with practice.... these things worked for mine:

a list of clear goals when child leaves the lesson -

for example: play bar 5 3x/day -- (and WHY that bar(s) needs repetition (what is the child meant to accomplish - correct rhythm, notes, dynamics, phrasing etc)

practice charts (with clear goals, number of repetitions required) are good

not too long on one piece - max 3 - 4 weeks. Move on even if the piece is not perfect - otherwise ..boredom sets in

charts are good for learning scales/arpeggios for exams

child 'controls' of their practice time - ask him - 'how long do you want to practice - 3 min - 7 min?' give them a timer and INSIST that he stops when the time is up. he will be probably be surprised by how quickly the time goes by and want to do more.

Maybe structure the practice time.... (again - use a timer - for example -- .. 5 min on piece A, 7 min on piece B, 4 min on piece C .. & thats 14 min practice already ... nevermind the scales! (another 6 min)

children (and adults... like me!) have short attention spans .. one rule (that I heard) for kids is practice time = age of child (in minutes) + 2. For your son - this means 13 minutes - no more.

lastly - sit with him and listen when he practices .. this lets him know that you think practice is important! even just 2 minutes is meaningful!

maybe these things might help your son be more motivated? my own dc did grade 5 piano on just 20 min/day .. age 10 ..I say this only to emphasise that it's possible to do very little practice (but highly concentrated) and do well. As for grades... they might mean a lot when your child is younger but once they leave school - nobody really seems to ask... although actually - Grades 6,7,8 yes - they are theoretically useful in terms of UCAS points .... but this is an expensive and time consuming way to get UCAS points unless you are really into doing exams

Worried- thanks for picking up on what I said (and for agreeing with me).

OP, you started out thinking a new teacher might help, and I just want to repeat myself and say that a new teacher can make a HUGE difference. This doesn't even mean there is something wrong with the old teacher, just that a new perspective can be very inspiring and motivating for a child.

Agree with claraschu 100%- try a new teacher, it can make all the difference.
And I totally agree that he could be grade 3 or higher by now (I would expect not less than 5 tbh) I cannot see how the amount of time spent on grade 1 can be justified taking into account feedback from other teachers. It seems like there is a problem with this teacher. No surprise he is bored. It looks like he is not challenged enough.

Chethams does a summer course for pianists, including under 18s - lots of availability for interaction with other pianists. I'm sure there will be others as well.

Piano is not just a solo instrument. If you're a violinist, or a singer, or a flute player, who do you look to provide the accompaniment? Oh, a pianist. Can your son begin to accompany any of his violin teacher's junior pupils or with any other singing students? Most grade 1 pieces have very simple accompaniments so within his abillity and it's a really useful skill to have. I teach 2 instruments and I get my piano students (grade 3 upwards) to accompany my beginners on flute.

NB with (not piano) instrumental playing (and to some degree singing) children can also do holiday courses, residential and (if you're lucky) non-residential. They absolutely love these.

Mine are like that! Sometimes they have to be coaxed away from a screen but always come back buzzing from music groups!
Sorry OP, I realize ABRSM was a red herring with the piano exam! But exams may still be part of the problem. Chat with the teacher and see what your instincts tell you. In any case, it's quite common for children to change music teachers when they finish primary school so if you do decide to make a move, next September might be good timing for a fresh start.
It's great that he does group musical activities as well, with the singing and violin playing, as piano is a solitary instrument and you don't get the benefits of ensemble playing!

I'm a bit stricter than you are - if there is a suitable music group or choir the DCs go to it! They enjoy it while they're there, but before going would sometimes rather be having a lie-in or watching a dvd!

I am a violin teacher and performer, and our three teens all play (one very seriously). I disagree with almost everyone, because I feel quite strongly that a new teacher can make a huge difference to a child's attitude and motivation. My kids have always taken a leap forward with each new teacher- something about the change of approach, and the excitement of a fresh start.

I feel that three years is generally a good amount of time with a teacher, and your son has had 6 years with his current teacher. If I were you, I would look for a teacher who would have ideas about getting your son to perform more, improvise more, play more different kinds of music, etc. Your son sounds like a very musical child, who has fallen into a hum-drum exam-fuelled approach, which (I think) can sap the excitement from learning music.

Exams are completely unnecessary; they can be a convenient tool for teachers but can also be counter-productive for some kids.

OP - if he's been singing for 2 years then gr 3 is fine at his age. I'm sure he could be further ahead in the grades than that if that was a key consideration, but if the teacher is doing lots of different songs with him, not just the grade songs, plus sight reading and aural, that's fine. I would encourage him to join a choir, assuming he's not already in one. Singing in a choir doesn't feel like work at all, and helps a lot with the quality of the voice (if you have a good choir director) and with general musicianship.

Did the teacher also tell you that it's illegal to photocopy music?

I haven't read the full thread as I'm a bit short of time, but just to pick up on one thing.

I work in music, and was chatting with a colleague this morning about kids' motivation to practice. There is an oft quoted study in our circles, the results of which show that children who are told that they are talented are far less likely to make an effort than children who are congratulated on the hard work that led to their achievement.

You mentioned that his teacher has said to you that he is talented at the piano, has said teacher (and/or anyone else) been saying to your son that he is talented? If so, this might discourage him from practising. After all, if he is talented, he doesn't need to bother working at it (that's what a lot of talented children end up thinking, and it's such a shame because it leads to a tailing off in effort for lots of children).

Mumof2 - according to recent surveys amongst piano teachers the average time to get to grade 1 is 2 years. That's an average so some are quicker, others much slower, especially if they start at a younger age. Typically my students are around grade 2 to 3 at year 6 regardless of how long they've been playing, simply because the timescales are reduced the older the child is when starting. BTW I'm not a huge fan of the exam system as I find it slows downs progress in the early years - some of my students will sit 1 or 2 early grade exams if they want to, then nothing until grade 5.

Ben Crosland is a contemporary composer - his work is currently featuring on the Trinity 2014-2015 syllabus and this is a link to some pieces of about the right level for your son

Elena Cobb is another newish composer/teacher who has a range of sheet music you can download - her website is here I use Higgledy Piggledy Jazz for introducing improvisation skills, also basic chording so students can learn to play from a lead sheet (vocal line plus chords).

Singing is a completely different kettle of fish to playing piano. If you can hold a tune, have a good memory and are blessed with good vocal chords, then singing exams are SO much easier than instrumental. I'm saying this from the POV of someone who has diploma/degree level in 2 instruments and also grade 8 singing.

Interesting that your son is doing LCM. I've not used them as I've never been overly excited about the choices of pieces including those on the alternative lists. Is he only doing pieces from the book or has he looked at other options where you have to buy additional music?

I imagine he's found the step from grade 2 to 3 quite difficult - he may have become put off by mention of the exam as well! I would talk to the teacher and see if it's possible to cut exam-related practice down to specific bite-sized sections, but that have to be done little and often, and offer the incentive of a non-exam piece to work on alongside it.
Having said that, I am struggling through grade 3 myself and the ABRSM syllabus at the moment really isn't that child-friendly. It has pieces that I enjoy - but I'm old! My piano teacher and I were struck by the theme of gloom that seems to pervade it - but to be fair I haven't looked at the other exam pieces that aren't in the ABRSM book and they may be much more upbeat! Who chose the exam pieces - your son or the teacher? It's important for the student to have a say.
Can I suggest two things that have worked for DS2? One is that I keep an eye on what he's actually practising, while still encouraging him to play for fun. The other is that I keep in touch with the teacher and if either of us has concerns we talk on the phone. It has been a really positive experience!

Piano is a difficult instrument and takes more time than other instruments, IME. Having said that, this progress is very slow. Not sure how long he's been taking singing lessons for, but if a similar amount of time then he is making very slow progress with that too. I would have a good chat with the teacher and try to work out what is going wrong. A change to a more inspiring teacher might help. But at the end of the day, some children won't put much practice in, and they are unlikely to get anywhere with music, especially if they don't happen to be very musically talented. I would focus on an orchestral instrument, and insist that he play with a group. Playing an easier instrument (eg clarinet) will speed up his progress and make playing in a group more rewarding.

I am not sure much action is required, he wants to continue his lessons, he practices regularly... Maybe he can ask his teacher for a particular piece/style if music he likes.

Fwiw, my DS is 12 and "only" on grade 3 now, after 6 years. He enjoys it though, plays a fair few pieces that are not "grade material", like last year shen he had hus heart set on learning to play "let it go".

I know lots of parents and teachers who want the kids to go throughthe grades as quickly as possible, for whatever reason (ucas points, scholarships, boasting or just general conpetitiveness) but that is not really "us".

I'd go with yourDC's view.

The fact that he plays most days is very positive btw. If you do something regularly you WILL improve even if you're not working on the things you "should" be doing. Dd almost never practices her set guitar pieces (she'll occasionally work on a technical study, or a jazz chord sequence but that's all) - however she plays every day without fail, and after a period last summer when her technical ability seemed to have plateaued, she has since taken off again.

You've had some good responses already. If it were me I'd try to get to the bottom of why he's not wanting to practise. If he's recently moved to senior school, sings and plays the violin it might be time pressure. Does he play for pleasure or is it a chore for him? It might be that this is the wrong instrument for him at this time, if he's not enjoying it then a change of teacher may not change that. If he isn't enjoying it then I'd give a term's notice and stop the lessons, I know he says that he doesn't want that but if he's not demonstrating some commitment then what's the point of continuing?

Is he exploring music outside the grade syllabus? Does he prefer the jazzy pieces and would a change of direction be beneficial e.g. looking at jazz exams and exploring some improvisation; or looking at Rockschool or the Trinity Rock and Pop syllabus instead? My students who are like a mix of classical and more modern pieces tend to go for Trinity exams as they have a more up to date approach than ABRSM. Not all kids are that keen on plodding through the ABRSM syllabus which can, in all honesty, be a bit dull at times.

For music outside of exam pieces ask if he can try out some Elissa Milne, Ben Crosland, Pam Wedgewood or Elena Cobb as they write music which is fun to play and appeals more to some students than Mozart or Bach.

As far as progress goes, you say he started at 5 years - in my experience the younger pupils start, the longer they take to get to grade 1 level. If an 11 year old had started and was only playing at grade 3 level after 5-6 years then you might have cause for concern. Unless you have a particularly motivated student, who also has knowledgeable and involved parents, starting at 5 years old is quite a long and slow process so grade 3 by the end of primary school is quite reasonable.

Supervising practice is hard - I struggle to supervise my daughter's trumpet practice as I teach until 7, then have dinner/household chores etc but if you could take a look through his notes and just check he's doing at least some of what he should be it would be helpful. Students who don't practice what they should are often defensive in lessons and it leads to a downwards spiral as lessons become like groundhog day for teacher and student!

Find out what he plays when he's playing for pleasure.

if he's playing every day and has some aptitude, he may not be "ready for grade 3" in terms of being able to play the pieces and the scales - but he might be a better pianist than you (or the teacher) think!

Maybe he'd do better with harder pieces (some students relish a challenge) or different styles?

Try him on some different instruments, he might be a wind player? DD thought she was strings, did violin to Grade 2, then Cello, but doesn't really enjoy it. But sax is her thing.