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Original poster

Would this timescale be mad for next grade (violin)

36 replies

anamenotanumber · 29/08/2014 22:20

Ds is 9 and has been playing violin for about 2.5 years. His teacher is lovely but the slowest ever and has a reputation for being very, very plodding and cautious.

Ds likes the structure of doing grades and got much more interested when he started on grade 1 preparation. The teacher took three terms on this and they did no other pieces so it did get a bit dull although he didn't complain. He did well in the exam and then wanted to do and did a violin summer camp for a week of mornings as he is so happy when playing. The feedback from the camp teacher was very positive about how musical he is and how strong his sight reading is, and she is known not to say things for the sake of it, just to be kind.

Now they are working on grade 2 (since mid- July) and he had a few extra lessons so has made progress with the first two pieces. He has started annotating the last piece himself as he is desperate to move on it and really self motivated.

The scales are coming on. Dh is very musical and is helping him where he needs support. Some technical stuff needs work still.

Soooo...would we be mad to ask the teacher if he can do G2 in November? Ds is very keen and does lots of practice nowadays. Teacher said Spring or maybe summer if he doesn't practice enough but even Spring seems s-l-o-w for a motivated, musical 9 year old who has been playing this long.

Views please?

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Original poster
anamenotanumber · 07/09/2014 10:58

Well the teacher has not replied to the email!
Perhaps they didn't receive it or perhaps they didn't like us asking.

Will have to see what she says at the next lesson (done in school) on Thursday...

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DeWee · 02/09/2014 12:06

My experience of school orchestras is that the grade they say needed to get in is usually the grade for the really popular (and not many) instruments. Violin he's likely to get in lower. It was grade 4 officially at my school, but I got in with grade 3, and I suspect would have at grade 2. But if you were a flute/clarinet you needed to be grade 4 and pass an audition.

I think I'd discuss with the teacher. If she usually takes a long time preparing exams then I suspect November will be too soon for her. But if she's willing to listen and take on board what you say then it's a huge bonus mark for her as a teacher.

It does seem very slow for a hard practicing violinist. I'm average musical, but practiced hard and did grade 2 after 4 terms and grade 3 a year later.

Original poster
anamenotanumber · 02/09/2014 11:45

That sounds interesting about the festivals!
Will see if there are any but fear round here they will be populated by super-grade 8 at age 10 type kids.

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Noteventhebestdrummer · 02/09/2014 11:33

Yes to festivals as great motivation!

Anyone close enough to Manchester should come to this one

www.hmyf.org.uk

Cleebourg · 02/09/2014 09:39

Eek re 'Grade 5' school but you can't fill two violin sections with scholars unless you have vast resources (and then there'd probably be bows-drawn-at-dawn on seating positions... the competition goes on!). Understood re conservatoire, aname, it was just by way of example. (In fact they're not as all-consuming as some portray nor full of mini Mozarts but that's another story). Lovely that he enjoys playing and gets on with teacher. S/he may alter approach as he gets older & you might find his technique has gained by taking it steady (and every teacher DC had liked a different bow hold as far as I could make out and it did no harm). Nine is young for a violinist notwithstanding the prodigies that definitely exist. Pretty sure DC hadn't done Grade anything by then.

If he likes a goal, how about music festivals? You get some uber competitive ones but it's a nice opportunity to play and is something to aim for. It's really great to stand up and play in front of people. And it needn't be grade stuff - in fact an adjudicator might welcome something that isn't! Usually you get really constructive comments and feedback. Just a thought.

Original poster
anamenotanumber · 01/09/2014 11:19

No the teacher is very experienced but seems to have this super chilled approach. I agree with this initially or for some dc who don't want any pressure and just want to plod on. Ds actually loves the structure of grades so it's different.

We have about three schools he might go to. One expects g5 in mainstream to get into the orchestra which rather puts me off the school altogether tbh! They have music scholars so I suppose that's why. Other two I will check but pretty sure a grade 3 will not be enough. We are in a very pushy area so there are probably a lot of g5 year 7s knocking about.

Don't think he's a conservatoire candidate - even with a pacier teacher. He loves violin but other things too and would want more balance than that would allow. Anyway it is not an option for a 9 year old who has only done grade 1 Grin

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Cleebourg · 01/09/2014 08:52

You are presumably pretty sure what school he will be at - what grade does he need to be by Yr7 to join their orchestra? You have a good point and a plan is called for, not for his life(!) but as something to monitor progress against. Although e.g. junior conservatoire etc are interested only in the level of playing and potential and not pieces of paper, a busy school is likely to want a piece of paper, so you are being a good parent. Nice that your son is keen. Good luck with talking to the teacher - is s/he relatively inexperienced?

Original poster
anamenotanumber · 01/09/2014 08:31

Thanks noteven, think we tick all those boxes - very helpful to see.

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Noteventhebestdrummer · 31/08/2014 23:18

When parents ask me for kids to do exams sooner rather than later I like these arguments:

The exam motivates them

They will practice loads

The Grade attained opens a door for orchestra/school/junior dept

The parent will pay for as many extra lessons as needed

The kid likes doing exams

Original poster
anamenotanumber · 31/08/2014 21:23

Yes different learning and playing styles out there I'm sure.

Tonight ds said he only really started enjoying it when he did the grade prep and he is a very structured sort of kid who likes that challenge so that makes sense.

He does enjoy it for what it is too though I'm sure.

This evening he decided he is going to teach himself the last half of the third piece (they haven't done this yet in lessons) and he has playing all three pretty well already. DH is very musical (loads of grades on two instruments and plays a third to a high standard but hasn't done grades on that one) so is helping him and can tell that they are fairly good so it is as if he is getting extra lessons almost daily.

I feel an email to the teacher coming on...

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Worriedandlost · 31/08/2014 15:33

"When he plays he really listens to how it sounds and concentrates hard on self-improvement. He seems to care a lot about it. (Do I sound stupid? Maybe all kids do this?)"

No, you do not sound stupid at all :) I think it depends on child's learning style, dd is a bit hyperactive so she struggles to repeat the same piece for ages (this is why she did not progress with her piano teacher), so quick change of pieces works the best for her. On the other hand it is good for sight reading etc.... but there is no universal teaching style, I firmly believe that there is an ideal teacher for every student, but sometimes it takes time to find him/her!

Original poster
anamenotanumber · 31/08/2014 15:13

I think the fact he only did the exam pieces/ scales for three whole terms and still didn't get bored sort of shows how committed he is to it!

When he plays he really listens to how it sounds and concentrates hard on self-improvement. He seems to care a lot about it. (Do I sound stupid? Maybe all kids do this?)

Anyway, I will have the chat with the existing teacher. Good to have a plan.

I will ask super-talented child's mum when I see her. She is very, very talented not just locally good iyswim. Quite lovely to hear her play sometimes when I have had the chance.

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Worriedandlost · 31/08/2014 14:51

anamenotanumber, I think it sounds like a good plan! Explain about orchestra (this way you do not look like a pushy mum who is interested in grades only). And if it does not work...
Do you by any chance know how long it took to take grade 1 that talented child who practiced two hours a day?
(and btw if it is only exam pieces it must be very boring... dd may practice up to one hour but it is only because she usually has about 3-7 different pieces+scales+finger practice)

Original poster
anamenotanumber · 31/08/2014 14:37

he/ she mix up. Trying to disguise the details in case they read this section!! Got myself in a muddle!!

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Original poster
anamenotanumber · 31/08/2014 14:36

Oh I know I'm going against the grain but I want to give the current teacher one last chance. So I do want to at least try and persuade her to do it earlier.
That way if it's a no they will also understand why we are switching.

I know grade progress is slower with strings but equally I'm conscious that ds will dearly want to join an orchestra in year 7 and won't be able to at this rate at the schools he might go to.

I checked when he started and it was actually 2.5 years/ 8 terms between starting and doing grade 1. He did three full terms of prep for it. That said before this school year and him starting g1 prep he only practised about 2 or 3 times a week. The teacher has other pupils who go even sloooooowwwwwer and two who have gone faster - one very talented indeed and practises for two hours a day by choice and the other I'd guess the parents pressured the teacher as they know the teacher personally or maybe he is super-talented too.

Ds IS fairly talented but not destined for any conservatoire so it does seem terribly slow.

So I think I will ask the teacher if he can try for Nov/ Dec and explain re the orchestra when he is at secondary, him being keen to do it then and committed etc. And if he thinks I'm a pushy, annoying parent, so be it...

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Worriedandlost · 31/08/2014 13:33

anamenotanumber, yes, I think you can pick the date with abrsm, or at least try to change it to a late date if needed, I had such experience.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 31/08/2014 13:05

I would change teachers too. Horses for courses and all that. Your DS wants to progress through the grades and is prepared to put the effort in and enjoys it - a teacher that is holding him back is going to spoil the enjoyment for him and turn him off playing. That is the crime here, not how long it takes to pass the grades (IMO).

9yo passed G1 (in the last round of exams, with distinction) and is doing her G2 in Nov - her choice entirely (both to learn & to take exams) and her teacher said she would expect her to get a distinction in that too judging on how well she is already doing. She is doing the same with piano as well.

She loves the lessons, but doesn't especially enjoy practising at home, she needs to be 'reminded', she will do it once 'reminded' and doesn't need nagging (else she would stop going as it's her choice to do it) whereas your DS is practising a lot by choice! Don't let his teachers attitude spoil it for him.

The other thing you might want to consider (if he isn't doing it already), is taking the Music Theory exams, if he carries on he will need to have done this and my theory is they might as well start sooner rather than later and have to 'catch up' on the exams. She loves the theory part of it and does that at home without even having to be 'reminded' - weird little creature :)

Worriedandlost · 31/08/2014 13:00

anamenotanumber, can you just google for a new teacher? Or use some sites, like musicteachers.co.uk for example?
Regarding the trust issues - trust your feelings! I had all these considerations with piano teachers (I gave you one example above, in fact dd had 4 piano teachers in 2 years), and still confident that I was right as I know what is the best for my dd. Fortunately we have this brilliant violin teacher so I had some benchmark :) I still feel it is not a perfect match with teacher number 4, but decided to leave it for the time being. Music is too expensive and time consuming thing to do, therefore teacher should match your requests :))))

SanityClause · 31/08/2014 12:40

Honestly, just go to a different teacher.

We had a "plodding" teacher for DD2, and I stuck with her, thinking she knew best, until one term when DD2 learnt no new pieces at all, but revised some she had learnt a year earlier. This was seemingly because the teacher was busy preparing other more advanced pupils for an end of year concert, and also wanted to bring up other children to my DD's level, so they would all be at a similar level. So, my DD sort of fell through the cracks.

We moved to another teacher, and she did an exam about a term and a half later, missing out a grade altogether.

BUT, I did do lots of research into a good teacher. I asked a parent of a girl who I know who is a music scholar at DD2's school for a recommendation, and then asked the music teachers at her school about him, as well.

Cleebourg · 31/08/2014 12:19

"next question - how can I word my 'demand' to the existing teacher"

With enormous care! If you go to the ABRSM Forums' Teacher subforum (www.abrsm.org/forum/), you can find examples of teacher's responses to just such requests. As you and the current teacher aren't on the same hymn sheet, you need to find one whose judgement you trust - then leave it up to them as the professional. Are you confident that the new teacher will be[do] what you want?

I agree with all those above (as a non-expert mind you) that only doing exam pieces is unhelpful in all ways. But there is nothing wrong with where he is given length of time learning. String instruments are slow progress

Original poster
anamenotanumber · 31/08/2014 10:19

So it seems we are stuck with this teacher for a little longer as the other one is busy but might have a place in a few weeks when she knows her schedule better.

Can you pick ABRSM dates so we could go for the end of the period this Autumn (think it is Nov-Dec) rather than the start?

next question - how can I word my 'demand' to the existing teacher that we try for this grade in Nov/Dec not later?? Their view was March when we asked originally and ds did ask if he could do sooner and was told no it should be March.

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Noteventhebestdrummer · 31/08/2014 09:14

My Y3 starters nearly all take Prep Test in the 3rd term and Grade 1 in the 4th. Then if they practice (I have an inventive scheme that asks for 15 mins average per day) they generally take a Grade a year after that.

DS wasn't impressed when I told him his Grade 4 was in 3 weeks and he had 2 new pieces to learn but it was a good experiment for him! He was already playing well at that level so the pieces were readable for him.

Our Suzuki teacher didn't do exams but was happy to recommend another teacher who did to do lessons alongside hers, that's why I asked if you had the same method.

Worriedandlost · 31/08/2014 03:01

anamenotanumber, my dd was doing violin for two years and her teacher is really really strict and not after grades. Dd did grade 1 after 18 months, this March, so quite long, but will be doing grade 2 in November. So it is by all means possible. And her teacher gives her other staff too-not only grade book, though they play all pieces from the grade book. My dd is few years younger than your ds, surely musical 9yo can do it too? Agree with previous advice-change the teacher... Dd had a piano teacher and liked her but progress was too slow so I changed her and have no regrets. Dd had her piano grade in 6 months after changing the teacher.

Original poster
anamenotanumber · 30/08/2014 23:19

I will look tomorrow, thanks julie.

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JulieMichelleRobinson · 30/08/2014 22:13

I won't comment on technique without seeing a student - sometimes things are wrong, and sometimes teachers just do slightly different things. For the bowhold, the key thing is no tension - thumb should be curved to make a circle with middle finger (or still curved but placed under the frog, which is how mine begin if they're young), little finger should be near the others, not out on the nut, bow should be held but not gripped. Hence pencil practise. Beyond that, it gets a bit personal.