Feeling fed up... Why bother learning an instrument in ptimary school to drop it in year 7?

There are lots of brass players at DS's (private) school.

Why?

They do six introductory free lessons in Year 4 of a brass or woodwind instrument, and then can pay for lessons and hire an instrument from the school for the rest of the year. (They do the same in year 3 with strings.)

There are loads of opportunities to play with various ensembles, including jazz bands, as well as more classical ensembles.

It is seen as a "normal" thing to do. Lots of the (non music) teachers play instruments, including a "cool" teacher who plays the euphonium. At last year's prize giving, there was a "mighty orchestra" where at least half the students, and all the peripatetic music teachers and many of the classroom teachers played.

The school has both a junior and senior school. So, while DS is the only bassoonist (tenoroon, actually) in the junior school, there are others in the senior school, so it is worth a teacher coming in, as it's to teach 4 students, not just one. (I know bassoon is woodwind, not brass, but it's similar in that it's quite rare.)

The parents can (one assumes) afford to pay for lessons, or they wouldn't have children at a private school.

Schilke, Too Bloody Heavy would be my guess at why pupils give up brass (barks shins on tuba in hallway yet again).

Bunion, any idea how to translate the newfangled 'umpty credits at QCF level X' into actual UCAS points, cos I can't get my head round it?

Aye shall ignore your suggestion that it's just a question of tone in these schools (mind you, DH still has a lingering feeling that brass-playing is all very well for them northerners but not a proper form of music, I think).

mine have never been given the opportunity to learn an instrument in primary school (they are 14, 12 and 6)

78bunion, but my dh teaches in private schools. At one school the singing teacher goes in for a couple of days a week and could do more, but brass....4 pupils. 8 years ago he had 18 pupils. It's not just brass, other orchestral instrument teachers are struggling for numbers too. This is a big, academic well respected independent school. Singing, guitar, piano & drums are much more popular, especially singing!
Don't think it's as simple as financial reasons. Still blame Simon Cowell

The original post is not the case at most good private schools. There loads of children at secondary level learn instruments to a high standard. So perhaps it is a cultural difference between different classes of people in the UK or just a financial issue.

However all normal children do curb their full range of hobbies as they go into their teens and find those they like and those they don't. They do get UCAS points for grades 6 - 8 so that is worth telling them.

Also fewer children go to church so are not singing in a choir there every week these days so exposed to less more classical music than used to be the case. If went back 60 years most parents would aspire to have a piano as a mark of their progress and probably most homes do not have a piano these days.

Our children have quite a few grade 8s and that partly reflects parental interests too and the kind of schools they are at.

Piano is great cos you can sing a long to it, we loved it at xmas playing carols and all singing.

Same with guitar.

Can't quite do that with woodwind, violin, and things like cello are quite limited unless you actually do want to play in a quartet or orchestra etc.

We don't have a piano but we have my old guitar and dp's electric keyboard so the kids will have learned how to read music etc from the lessons they are having now and will be able to probably teach themselves strummy-chord type guitar later on if they want to (which is what I did).

Nearly all the ds's friends started out with swimming lessons. Some stopped as soon as they got to a point where they would not drown if they fell into water. Some carry on till competent. ds1 wants to stop now cos he 'knows all the strokes',, whereas ds2 really wants to keep on and get to club level. I don't hear the swim teachers complaining that 70 kids start learning and only 10 want to carry on coming past age 10....

I think the piano is a great choice, and one far more likely to be taken forward into adult life.

If I had my time again...

Bonsoir that's one reason I chose the piano, of I actually had to get an instrument out of its case I would never play it

That's why we chose piano! No commitment to orchestras or other people and easy to practice at home as the piano is always out and available for a quick 10 minute practice concert as the opportunity arises!

Oh sure Bonsoir.

I don't think you should just let DC give stuff up at the first pulled face.

But TBH, many of the things my DC tried out just ran teir natural course. Particularly sports, which increase hugely in commitment as the years go by. You have to really like gymnastics or running or diving to train three to five times a week.

Singing is also a big time consumer.

So DC reduced their interests over time IYSWIM. And instruments went by the wayside.

Up to a point, wordfactory. Many DC would discover they didn't like eg Maths and give it up given half the chance.

My DD had a wonderful line for me when she doesn't want to do something - "But Mummy, I'm not that kind of girl."

I listen but I do think that DC need encouragement to persist with a broad range of educational activities, finances permitting. The core curriculum in schools has more to do with what is cost-effective to deliver than with what is truly beneficial to DC.

OP, DC try lots of things and don't take them forward.

Music, dancing, sports, you name it.

They are finding their way, trying things on for size, discovering who they are.

I also think there's a lot more club choice these days.

My dd does choir, stagecoach, speech and drama, swimming and brownies... Plus she plays the recorder. She is in yr 4. At some point something will have to be dropped along the way especially going into senior school I guess.

They all also offer lots of opportunities as they get older - guiding/scouting in particular offer lots, plus all the shows/trips that come with musical theatre type stuff and the schools do world challenge/d of e.

They can't do it all. I guess as you improve and go up the grades unless you are naturally very musical or really love playing, I can see how musical instruments are easily dropped.

You plateau in an instrument - you can quite quickly get to playing some basic tunes, which is exciting, but then each step of improvement gets harder. Eventually it feels like all you're doing it practicing and not getting any better.

I played the violin aged about 8 - I was dreadful and rapidly lost interest. I played the clarinet about 13 for about a year but again lost interest when it got hard (I can still get a note out of a sax, clarinet, etc). My mother said I could give up but only if I took responsibility and didn't regret it later (which I probably do a bit).

Off my own bat I picked up an electric guitar at about 22 and now play in a covers band. Not well and I probably plateaued about 20 years ago, but I got there eventually.

Ooh, posted before I was finished - I don't mean to say that my reasons for quitting violin were right, particularly with regards to people telling me it wasn't cool, but we're all impressionable at 12. Just that in the long run, I would've grown out of it anyway. I still occasionally play violin for fun, but it's not something I'd be interested in taking more lessons in.

I had free lessons in primary school of violin, and then paid £2 a session for private violin lessons until year 8, when I did my grade 3 but everyone told me violin wasn't cool, I joined a youth theatre, and started playing guitar. Fast forward 7 years and I don't regret it; playing violin taught me to read and appreciate music, but my real passion will always be guitar and singing, and the youth theatre essentially shaped my life to what it is now.

People grow out of things - sometimes they grow into new, similar things, sometimes they don't.

My two are having subsidised woodwind lessons in yr 3 and 4 now, with loan instruments.

They do swimming lessons (essential for safety imo) and one does gymnastics. There is a football club at school they want to join. And a fishing club down the road that their friend goes to. Will they commit to these long term? Who knows, but at that age they want to try everything. One already packed in gymnastics, but he tried it and got a few badges then decided it wasn't for him. Nothing wrong with that at all.
They have homework that takes up time nearly every day on top of the usual reading. Spellings, projects, maths sheets etc.
So we are fitting in the practise for the instruments but only just. And we are affording the subsidised lessons for two of them for now.

If one or both is really keen then I think they can carry on the lessons at this price till they leave primary school, but the thought of having to actually buy the instruments at several hundred pounds a pop, and pay full price for lessons when they are older... well I'm just not thinking about it.

I had piano lessons as a child, we were bloomin lucky cos a retired concert pianist lived near us and gave lessons to local kids for 50p/half hour. My mother could afford to send all 4 of us for lessons.

When you have more than one child in a family everything doubles, trebles, quadruples the cost. So if my children get to the end of primary and say they don't want to continue with their current instruments, I certainly won't be putting any pressure on them to continue when the lessons won't be subsidised.

Maybe all primary school orchestras are the same? Ours sounded like they were playing different tunes at the same time!

I was when DD's new guitar teacher said he's never had a child start her high school with Gr3 before. Apparently they've all been Gr2 or below.

Do you not think they might come back to it?

I learnt piano & flute from age 7, got to grade 5 by end of primary so not too bad (individual lessons not school!) and gave up when I started secondary because of the extra homework etc.

I picked up flute again around yr 9 and started playing sax too once I'd settled in secondary & felt more comfortable

Having said that guitar and also drum lessons are so oversubscribed in dd's new secondary that you're only allowed to take them if you've already started learning in primary, so it obviously isn't universal.

Jux, our primary's orchestra was similarly tooth-shatteringly bad. I suspect some of the children were playing two different pieces at the last one.

DD's primary didn't even have a proper choir, let alone instruments. There was a music teacher who couldn't get an instrument in tune if you paid her. The choir was done after school with one of the nursery nurses. The HT was only interested in sport. Their well-equipped music studio was not allowed to be used as the HT didn't want other lessons disturbed.

Extra curricular lessons are very expensive. We couldn't afford them. We have many instruments here, at home, but they are all guitar-like (lute, mandolin, banjoleli, etc or violins). The music shop didn't hire out instruments because the guy who ran it "couldn't be bothered".

DD is now in secondary where there are many opportunities. She is grabbing them with both hands, thank goodness.

I still shudder at the music evening her primary put on. We left after 3 hours of untuned instruments and Abba songs. That was at about half time.

Now, does anyone know of a hurdy gurdy teacher?

It can be a real struggle though if you are not musical yourself as a parent. One on my sons plays cello. He is 10 and I really hope he continues it in year 7 as I think he really gets a lot from it, not just learning the instrument itself but the discipline to practice, getting together with other children, concerts etc HOWEVER it is really gard to help him with his practice. This week he came home with a piece and tried to practice it this morning and came to a phase he really couldn't remember the fingers or technique or whatever that his teacher had shown him. I couldn't help him as really had no idea what he is talking about, so have encouraged him to practises the bits he knows and scales etc but it is frustrating as I know he needs to practice. Not sure what the answer is .

I agree that there isn't just one reason but many and most of the ones on this thread I agree with, including the financial and time commitment from the family.

I also think that if a child manages to get to G5 before the onslaught of exams/homework starts, they have a better chance to stick to it because hopefully they can get some satisfaction out of playing and have come to enjoy their instrument. That's what I am hoping for my children anyway, who all play (primary aged).

lol Lancelottie - I know, I do wonder sometimes where all these grade 5 11 yr old kids are - I guess you don't see them because they are practising.... ?

DD is over the moon that she is "the best" at something....