Piano prep test - ballpark timeframe?

should have said parent willing to support

Boffin, that's what I keep saying - follow your child's lead and enthusiasm. I don't get it when people say that the normal or usual age is 7 or 8 or that there is usually not much difference in end result whether child starts at 4/5 or 7/8. So what? If a child is keen and interested and parent willing to start I see no reason to be bound by artificial restraints.

I have taught children this age, including one or two who were so drawn to the instrument that they practised and practised with great glee, and surprise surprise, they did well at it.

I know of children who were not enjoying practising for whom this was a total chore, and who dropped it later on.

In the end it comes down to how much effort the child naturally feels inclined to put in.

Mine all started at 7 or later, and (from memory) took 18months - 2 years before doing prep test. Not that hot on practice here though

My children's father teaches music. He would say he never found they are much better if they start very young but if the parent really wants it may be it won't do any harm.

He (and I too) would say if you can sit with the child every day for a short practice that makes all the difference. It doesn't even have to be for very long and it should be a fun thing. I also think if you can make it exactly the same time every day then it's easier, like most things in life, even brushing our teeth and bed time. I am sure mine/I do nothing like what tiger parents might do but a few scales a day we try to do. Also with some children as they get older if they have an exam they work. if they don't they don't which is one reason we've done quite a few exams. There was one ridiculous year when two of them had lots of exams in a year between them but that was just because I decided to whizz through grades 1 2 and 3 theory and grades 3, 4,5 singing in a year term by term with two of them and they probably had some brass exams too. It does depend on the child. Some don't want or need an exam to work at. Some love to have things they tick off like brownie badges.

PushyDad - my comments about feeling like they are failing come from a teacher perspective - I was using it to explain about the majority of children, hence my Year 2 rule. On odd occasions i will take on a younger child; usually if I know them and have an idea about how they will cope. I work peripatetically as well as from home, and in school I will often ask a class teachers opinion about a childs' general capacity, and also how easily they get frustrated. Also my comments are aimed at the piano specifically, largely because of having to read two lines of music at the same time and cope with two clefs.

Stringed instruments in particular are well suited to learning younger, partly because they come in small sizes. (Both my DS's are string players as well). There are also always exceptions to every rule. But there are also lots of adults and children out there who are convinced they are unmusical based on failing to cope with an instrument because they were too young/ had the wrong teacher/ didn't enjoy the sound they made.

singinggirl - with regards to your comment about 'pushing them too hard and them feeling like they are failing' that depends on the child.

We've all seen the US reality programs showing a generic pushy mum's attempts to get her not so pretty or talented daughter into the movies/Broadway/modelling etc. In those scenarios I agree that trying to push a child beyond what they can realistically achieve will damage them emotionally.

But as long as the child has the capacity then I see no harm in pushing them even at the age of four.

We started our kids on the violin at 5 and a half. By 7 DD had taken on the flute (her choice), the guitar at 8 (her choice) and the viola at 9 (at the suggestion of her violin teacher).

As I said, it depends on the child and unless you gently push the child a bit then how can you discover the child's true potential?

... how did those typos manage to creep in?

Hi Maggie

We didn't give up on the scales. Instead we merely relegated it to a practice session once a week. We found that between grades 1 and 3, each exam requirement builds on the previous one so it maked sense to prepare for each one. But if your child is musical then going from 3 to 5 isn't a great leap. So, no it isn't difficult :)

Despit

I certainly wouldn't go into music lessons at this age thinking about when they should be doing exams; if a child is having fun that is great, but just beware of pushing them too hard and them feeling like they are failing. I am a piano teacher who normally recommends starting children in Year 2, for multiple reasons including that they don't progress as fast when they are younger and can be put off by their apparent lack of progress.

That said, I started teaching mine at four - but because they had both been begging for months first - they wanted to learn to play the piano like all the big children who came round, and thought it wasn't fair that I wouldn't teach them! Neither did their Prep Test tilll they were six, and they were both at least seven and half before they took Grade 1. Since then they have both progressed at about a Grade a year, they are not that far ahead of other children despite the early start. However, they are good at working out tunes for themselves, filching music they fancy playing off my shelves etc. - generally having fun with music. (They both learn a second instrument with another teacher).

I generally don't put children in for every Grade, but we do look at the scale requirements and work through the aural syllabus etc so that when they do want to take an exam they can go in at an appropriate level. My DS's are the only ones I enter for every grade, for my own reassurance, since as their mum I am aware I may be a bit biased about how they are playing!

I don't think there's much point in starting too young. Starting at 5 or 7 usually makes no difference to how they are at 8. All our children did (do) 2 or 3 instruments as we're quite a musical family. In the youngest 2 are doing music scholarship exams this month and it's fun too. I like it anyway as I get the chance now they are better to play the piano to lovely music every day (it's easier to accompany and enjoy when they get to grade 7) and to sing. Grades 6 - 8 exams by the way get additional university UCAS points.

Hijack here. Pushydad mine did grade 3 violin last summer and we have taken a break from exams (new teacher and teaching syle). Dd doing wider repertoire than what exams would require but she has not really been doing scales etc. I intend that she will take up exams again (she's still young) but does it become a bit difficult to be catching up with elements if you have skipped grades and not practised these bits?

My DD started lessons when she was 9 and did the pretest after 11 months.

She just does exams in every other grade now as it is such a faff to get to the exam centre.

happyadvocado yes, sorry!, for music degrees! (you can see what's on our minds at the moment!)

fair enough.

Know exactly what you mean by the "I have no important stuff to do".

I hope the teacher manages to keep it fun for her.

I agree with post that prep test good for just before grade 1.

If it gets too much, you can always put on home concerts for family and friends (my kids love doing these, sad I know!!) and listen to stuff like Peter And The Wolf. Go to cushion concerts etc and pick up the lessons later on. Older children make faster progression generally, so it all evens out later on. (usually).

Hope all goes well, sorry I didn't believe you at first - was shocked, but understand your thought process.

gettingalifenow - do you mean applications for Music degrees?

For my DCs, 5 would have been too young for the piano, but that said, my youngest would certainly have been sitting there pretending to play from about age 2.

Iif she is too young because she doesn't have the span, then she could become disheartened. But there must be a fair amount of material available that takes this into account - be guided by your teacher.

There is no race to take an exam - the prep test is a good start but it should be done at a time when it'll help give experience she can build on - if she's not going to do grade 1 til she's 7 or 8, I' d wait til the year before that tbh.

I don't agree with Colleger about the exams not being important at least in some circumstances. I know you have a DC at Chets, where maybe it doesn't matter, but my dd is at JD and it likewise doesn't matter there ('of the standard' being the relevant measure) and by the time you're doing uni applications ( for non conservatories) it does matter.

But Op, that hijacking your thread there and many years off!

At 4.4 years old the child isn't even at school yet (presuming uk post).

Op - just wondering why the desire for two 30 min lessons?

If this is a real situation, then I'm intrigued to know more - I've never heard of so much tuition for a child so young before. I am a music teacher, so am genuinely interested, I'm not meaning to sound judgemental - each person has their own ideas.

I've no idea how long it would take a 4 yr old to reach Prep test level. It would depend so much on the child. Maybe 6 months, maybe 3 years.
I like my pupils to take grades 5 and 8 as bench marks, even if they take no others.

Colleger

I agree with you up to a point. Spending your life practising and perfecting three pieces for an exam does stifle a young child's growth (musically) but once the child has mastered the basics and is mature enough then that child needs a goal.

Mine did a grade a year but after Grade 3 we took a year out to increase their reportoire. They then did Grade 5 and 7 in two years and now we are in exam free mode again for at least another year.

Exams give children a sense of purpose, something to aim for and , yes, even something to brag about. I think it is healthy as long as the parent doesnt get the child to focus solely on passing exams as opposed to expanding their reportoire.

I would disagree colleger. They are not the be all and end all but they are an indicator of progress and many schools ask for a certain grade for music scholarships and so on. You can be of Grade 5 'standard' for example but if a child hadn't done any exams at all the school would ask why.

I would certainly agree that exams are not important at this age though but I think the OP just wants to get an idea of timescales.

Exams ARE NOT important when it comes to music.

Sorry can't offer any advice but just wanted to say don't be so hard on the OP. Yes it does sound like a lot but every child is different and maybe this setup is right for this particular child.

And of course there is a lot more to learning an instrument than just taking exams but they ARE important too.

2x a week 30 min is too long for that age (I guess teacher won't come for 15 min)
We started at the age of 5.5 - 30 min/week

exams are more for the parents than the kids (IMHO) at that age
kids can skip exams and progress nicely

I think the most important thing is to involve child in various music making activities including choir and perhaps in time aa second instrument to round it up, esp. that there's no guarantee that you will be able to find second instrument whoch suits your child straight away

for us it was piano until age of 9 almost up to the grade 2, meanwhile a year of recorder , a year of flute, after which she begged for percussion lessons in year 3 and has been learning percussion instruments for the past 6 years continuously
piano was dropped and 6 months ago at her request reappeared and now she is doing grade 4 piano, grade 6 xylophone, grade 7 musical theatre singing. She taught herself ukulele last year too.

if the child is musical - it will happen ;)

Another Tiger Mum?