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Hierarchy of Fat Loss: how to prioritise your time and effort.

88 replies

JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 06:58

I see countless threads on mumsnet where women talk about wanting to "tone up" and lose weight in which they discuss maybe taking up jogging or taking a class. Or asking which treadmill or elliptical to buy. It really frustrates me and makes me sad because I know that so many people are mostly clueless about fitness and weight loss.

There are many thousands of people grinding away on treadmills, taking "bums and tums" classes, etc. Most of them don't lose much weight. Quite a few lose none.

There are things that do a lot, and there are things that do relatively little, to help you lose body fat. Most of us have other stuff to do in life and so even carving out three hours a week can be a challenge. You need to know which activities are the best use of your time.

In order of efficacy and importance, here are the things that you can do.

  1. Diet. Nothing is more important. You cannot lose fat unless you eat fewer calories than you burn. You can improve strength and endurance and feel great, but you won't lose fat. Most people need to count calories to eat fewer calories but some have success with cutting out carbs, booze, intermittent fasting, etc. These are just ways of cutting calories.
  1. Weight training. Lifting weights, whether by machines or barbells kettle bells. This burns calories and triggers your body to preserve muscle mass while letting go of fat. Without this, step one will result in losing both fat and muscle. People who diet + lift lose more fat than those who diet + jog. The weights have to be heavy. If you can buy them at TK Maxx, they're too light.
  1. Sprinting, aka anaerobic interval training aka tabata. Incredibly intense running or cycling at a level so high that you can just barely do it for 20 seconds (you're miserable at 15 seconds and collapsing at 20). Work for 20 seconds, rest for 10-20 seconds. Repeat about 8 times, a few times a week. This burns calories for up to 36 hours after you quit. It literally raises your metabolism.
  1. Aerobic Intense Interval Training. Like above only at a level where you can sustain it for two to three minutes. You're gasping for breath and your heart is pounding. Work for 2 minutes, rest for 1-2 minutes and repeat 6-10 times. This also has an "afterburn" effect on the metabolism.
  1. Higher intensity steady state aerobic training. This is a brisk pace that you can stand for 20 or 30 minutes. You're breathing heavily through your mouth. Feels nice and you you get sweaty but you don't burn many calories. Once you stop and your heart rate returns to normal, you cease burning extra calories.
  1. Low intensity steady state cardio. This is walking. It has negligible effects on fat loss.

This is all explained in more depth, with links to the science to back it up in this fantastic article:

www.t-nation.com/training/hierarchy-of-fat-loss

I am losing weight rapidly and toning the hell out of my body with 1, 2,and 4. I know that 3 (tabata) is more efficient than my HIIT circuits but I am a wimp. Grin

These things aren't easy. They require commitment and you may have to learn new things. It's possible, but not easy, to do it at home with the use of books, YouTube videos and weights bought at home. Even joining a gym only gets you so far if you're clueless about the equipment. But I think it's worth it. Once you have overcome your fears and learned how to exercise properly, you'll be set for life.

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JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 12:56

It would be a fantastic thread!

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SnipSnipMrBurgess · 05/03/2017 11:59

Actually that might be another thread rather than hijacking yours sorry

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 05/03/2017 11:59

See I know what you and others say is right. And this is not an excuse but I have arthritis. I cant run, or cycle and I can usually walk up to 20 mins at a time. My elbows are locked so I can't lift weights and my hip bone socket is worn away so I can't do anything that pushes at the was. I live rurally and an unable to drive so can't go to the pool that is 30 miles away.

So how do I do it? The want and will to do it is there but my body let's me down every time

Cindbelly · 05/03/2017 11:59

Too late just £66 a month is too much money for 4 classes and 4 swimming sessions.
I would always feel awkward if I ventured into the weights area now and I've no interest in the treadmill when I can actually run outside for free!

JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 11:51

cindbelly don't let that guy put you off. He's just a salesman.

I'm sure they have the equipment you need.

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disappearingfish · 05/03/2017 11:51

Agreed with you 1000% OP. I was about 1-2 stone overweight for most of my life.

Started taking my (already pretty good) diet seriously and got a personal trainer. I'm a stone lighter (which is probably 2 stone of fat since I can now squat 60kg, deadlift 90kg and bench press 40kg. I'm 43, 5'2" and naturally very lazy.Grin

JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 11:49

Katharina I agree that LISS is worthwhile. (Hell, I think yoga is worthwhile!)

But not everyone has the time to run 18k.

Some people believe that such amounts of LISS are cpunterproduxt to strength and power. I guess competitive power lifters would find it detrimental to their performance.

But I personally want to be well-rounded. I'll be adding a couple of long hill walks a month when the weather improves.

When I lived in Argyll, there simply were no gyms available. Just swimmingly in Lochgilphead. So I ran and climbed hills. It did wonders for my mental health.

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JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 11:43

I see a lot more women lifting in those sorts of gyms.

Hip thrusts all over the place. Grin

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JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 11:41

In my experience, the most "women friendly" gyms are the ones used by the serious, burly heavy lifting guys. The higher the ratio of squat and bench racks to treadmills, the better.

In body building/powerlifting gyms, everyone is paying attention to their own workouts and not bothered with other people. There's usually a better level of gym etiquette, as well, with people putting weights back, not hogging equipment, etc.

And the people who take it seriously are often very willing to be helpful if you ask.

I have to travel a lot and researching good gyms to work out in can be tough. Questions like "how high do your dumbells go?" and "how many squat racks do you have?" can be very illuminating. I don't need anything over 32kg and I don't even do barbell squats, but it certainly gives you a good indication of the sort of gym it is.

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Cindbelly · 05/03/2017 11:38

I know katharina I just mentally switched off after that.
Most annoying as that is the only local gym I could have attended without using the car for work to travel there after, meaning if I go to a different one I will be doing less walking 3 days a week, and it's a lot of money too but I can't hand my money over to them every month now.
It could have been a reflection on me and what he thought I was capable of. I'm still roughly 2 stone over my target weight but only just above Bmi.

Either way, I wanted to tone up and be strong, not chat to the weights about shoes

KatharinaRosalie · 05/03/2017 11:28

and they don't have any 'women friendly weights' - what is that, a weight that will open the door for you? Won't give a running sexist commentary while you're working out?

Cindbelly · 05/03/2017 11:24

Hi op I think I understand,
I went to join nuffield health last week. Went along all ready to join and met with the guy who gives the info out. We discussed what I wanted to use the gym for, and I was honest, I already walk roughly 2/3 miles a day school run then onto work, would be walking to the gym and home (it's not a long walk) but time is precious because of the DC so would be able to do 1 swim session a week, one body conditioning class, and 1 weight lifting session at the gym.
Was instantly told women don't really use the weights area, and they don't have any 'women friendly weights' but not to worrry they've got lots of treadmills, cross trainers etc I could have access to instead of weight lifting.

Needless to say I didn't join. Hmm

KatharinaRosalie · 05/03/2017 11:17

In principle this is a good article and I always keep harping on about weights, but just a couple of things I'd like to mention

1 - yes the traditional advice is that you must lift heavy, 10-12 reps max, otherwise it won't do anything. But there's an interesting study from last year showing that lighter weights for more reps is just as effective.

One group was assigned to follow the standard regimen, in which weights were set at between 75 and 90 percent of the man’s one-repetition maximum and the volunteer lifted until he could not lift again, usually after about 10 repetitions.

The other volunteers began the lighter routine. Their weights were set at between 30 and 50 percent of each man’s one-repetition maximum, and he lifted them as many as 25 times, until the muscles were exhausted.

The results were unequivocal. There were no significant differences between the two groups. All of the men had gained muscle strength and size, and these gains were almost identical, whether they had lifted heavy or light weights.

2 - there was also a recent study (which I can't find at the moment) which found that not all people react the same. They had a steady exercise group and HIIT group, and in both of them there were people who were not getting the expected benefits - but who benefitted from the other group's exercises. So it's not always 'one size fits all' and if you have been doing something but not getting similar results as other people, it might be a good idea to consider alternative options.

3 -And as for the moderate/low intensity cardio training not doing anything, I will go out for a little run later, 16-18 km planned for today. This burns at least a 1000 kcal. I mostly do it to get some fresh air and clear my head, but it's still -1000 kcal, I would not call it nothing and totally useless

picklemepopcorn · 05/03/2017 11:14

Oh dear, if only reading the threads was enough to achieve something... I've dipped into half a dozen weight loss threads, and now this one, but current circumstances are particularly difficult to work with.

cattypussclaw · 05/03/2017 11:10

This is really interesting, thank you. I desperately need to lose weight but am approaching the menopause (when I'm told it'll just get harder to lose weight). In the run up to Christmas last year, I spent three months on a diet (nothing wacky, just eating less and better) and made sure I did 20k steps a day. At the end, I had lost... nothing. Gave up, binged through Christmas and the New Year and put on another stone. Will take on board your comments. Thank you for posting x

Thefitfatty · 05/03/2017 11:08

Interesting thread OP, and I would agree with you and a lot of women do overlook weight lifting.

I don't care much about fat loss, but since I don't have oodles of time to work out I find kettlebell circuits are a great way to get in cardio and strength training. They're also fun (at least I think they are).

However, given that fat loss isn't my primary focus, I do enjoy my long runs plugged into music. It's like meditation for me. It sucks right now that I don't have time for them anymore. :(

Felicitylemon1958 · 05/03/2017 11:02

This has inspired me to join the gym and learn weights. I want to make sure I'm doing it right. I've always resolutely avoided the places but now I've lost weight I can see the wood for the trees - losing fat has in some ways made me more self conscious about my body.

ihatethecold · 05/03/2017 11:01

They're my dhs weights.
He would set them up for me.
after we cleared the crap piled around them

One thing that worries me is my lower back.
It's so temperamental.
I hurt it in Jan and caught a nerve.
It's just about better but I don't want to aggravate it.
I just couldn't do a forward bend from the hip with a barbell across my shoulders.

I would worry about my technique.

JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 10:52

ihatethecold that's awesome that you have weights and a bench. I agree that it's hard to know where to start.

Do you have barbells, dumbells or both?

There are basic beginners routines online. You'll start with body weight, actually. Nobody expects you to squat the barbell on day one. :)

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JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 10:49

I do my cardio on days that I don't lift weights for my legs. Cardio always after weights.

Mon: legs
Tuesday: upper body and cardio
Weds: cardio
Thurs: legs
Fri: upper body and cardio
Sat: cardio

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ihatethecold · 05/03/2017 10:47

Thank you for starting this thread op.
It's interesting and I couldn't care less where you started the conversation.

I do a lot of walking with my dogs but never seem to lose weight.
I always hover around 10 st.
I've been 10 st for about 12 years.
I'd like to be 9, I'm curvy with a large chest so this would definitely have health benefits for me.
I've done diets and they work for a while, I'll lose half a stone then I gain it again.

I want to exercise smarter.
I'm going to hire a treadmill or a cross trainer and I'd like to try step 1 and 2.
I'm thinking a cross trainer will be kinder to my joints.

We do have heavy weights in the garage along with a bench but I'm not sure where to start.

JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 10:47

zefstar is right.... It's baby steps.

My first baby step was huge: I stopped drinking. I wasn't a terrible, tragic drunk but I drank "moderately" every day. Gained 30lbs in 2 years.

A week into quitting I started to go to the gym and lifted WEIGHTS 4x a week. I learned how years ago with a personal trainer. My goal back then was to gain weight so he taught me how to do free weights.

I lost a stone in just over 2 months. Then I stalled. So I started to count calories and I added cardio in the only form I could stand/had time and patience for. I did cardio circuits for 20+ minutes of aerobic HIIT.( I have also started yoga but just for flexibility issues)

I've been losing 1-2 lbs a week and I'm maybe 5lbs from my goal. Then I get to eat more and start getting strong (ie, work on building a booty!)

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Parsley1234 · 05/03/2017 10:39

That's really interesting I get confused how to start though - how did you start ? Going to the gym and what programme did you do cardio before weights ? Thank you

JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 10:39

Auntiestella I assume that people exercise for a variety of reasons. Some want to improve their mood, some want to be stronger, some want to be more competitive at a sport, some want to improve mobility and some want to lose or maintain weight.

Weight loss is, I'm guessing, probably the most common primary motivation for women.

Probably most of us want to improve a variety of things, but weight loss is likely to be what gets a lot of people off the couch.

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JustGettingStarted · 05/03/2017 10:29

I've been posting on mn for years.

I have seen many, many threads about women who want to lose weight and get in shape.

It's rare for anyone to say that lifting heavy weights is the most effective method.

There are also subs for running and yoga. Runners and yogis post here. It's all exercise.

Running and yoga are awesome (I have done 5k and I do yoga regularly).

But if you want to exercise in order to lose fit and improve muscle tone, then heavy weights are the best use of your time.

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