Running with poor pelvic floor- what is your solution

Gussie is a physio who specialises in this sort of thing Katnip.

Being an elite athlete can give you all sorts of physical problems. Being fit and healthy though gives you a lot fewer health problems generally, though I agree, not everyone should or can run. Everyone should exercise and get out of breath though, which is what I meant by cardio exercise.

Milly - delighted to say my pf's awesome.

It WAS reduced to rubble. Three giant headed babies and I was reliant on pads. Properly pissy. I had urgency, frequency and did heehaw about it for several years. Made me sad, affected my relationship - and I KNEW what to do, just couldn't quite remember to do it. Mind you, I was so tired I couldn't remember the names of my children...

It wasn't until I wet myself at zumba and on my doorstep in front of my neighbour that I set 3 months of my life aside to "give it a bash".

No one was more surprised than me that it worked. Which is daft, seeing as how I knew the science!

But, it did. I have a G2 prolapse which is managed conservatively, and, with any luck, won't get worse.

I can run (though, I prefer not to), star jump, zumba and (gasp) trampoline. I no longer smell vaguely of pee.

That's why I landed up in women's health. I "get it". I've lived it, and I know how regaining your continence brings with it your dignity, your sense of humour and, erm, your sexual pleasure.

Fecking awesome set of exercises.

I do a 10, 10, 3 a LOT. More than x3 day. But, then, I'm in a habit now.

I didn't use aquaflex or any other gadgets, but, they have their place. Mostly, I just wanted to not be a smelly old lady.

Gussie - You are just making me feel pressurised/paranoid over nothing over something that is to do with how I am, how I've always been and doesn't cause me any issues, not to do with losing function after pregnancy or vaginal birth. If I do get problems that are debilitating then I would go and see someone and not put up with it. At the moment I have nothing to "put up with".

Like the fact I'm slightly knock-kneed on my right knee and flat-footed when I run, I have orthotics in my running shoes, it doesn't mean I should stop running or immediately have major knee/foot surgery. If it causes me problems in the future then I might have to have surgery, but not until then.

I'm not about to march into the GP and make myself an appointment because I weed a little bit when I had a bad cough, or drank too much fluid before running, when 99.9% of the time I am entirely continent! If I had problems like Learn, however, I would certainly go to the doctors.

I agree with the general message that women should not put up with problems and generally be more body aware. But please don't see problems where there isn't one.

Katnip - of course cardio does all those things. Of course it's good for you. But, some people should avoid running because they've got a dodgy knee, some people because they've got repeated Achilles tears and some people because they have pelvic floor issues.

Runners wanna run. And, in my experience, nothing else will do for them. But, it doesn't mean it's always a good idea - and, yep, it can make some women's bits drop out. And, if it's a runner's bits flapping about her ankles it IS a challenge for her to continue doing marathons.

Here's the sciencey bit:

Kari Bo's paper

Nygaard's

There's a study to be done at the Commonwealth GAmes following on from work started at the Olympics. Guess what they found? Female athletes, at the peak of physical fitness, incontinent. 540 women, only 4 had sought help. Particularly prevalent amongst long distance runners, gymnasts and weight lifters.

bloody hell learn who do these doctors think they are ? Some of them are so up there own arses.

how confusing. the gynae I saw (the not very nice one) asked me to bear down. I warned him I'd wee (my referral form said to turn up with a full bladder) he said do it anyway. I weed of course and he said, oh, go use the loo. (so I felt like I'd done something wrong, but I did warn him). I came back from the loo and he asked me to squeeze my of. I did. he then told me to get dressed and he'd see me next door. in his office he leaned back in his chair and said (with a dismissive gesture) it's your pelvic floor! do your exercises and come back in 3 months.

I asked him whether I did have a prolapse or not. 'yes, yes. come back in three months. give this to the receptionist'.
I'm now pregnant again, so I haven't been back. could the pf be in spasm since then? I was about 8months post partum at the time of this visit. I'm 30w pg now.

What about yogic tummy exercises Gussie where you are just pulling in the tummy muscles themselves whilst in standing position?

re abdominals and sit ups - tricky thing is rectus abdominus split. Loads of women land up with a finger or more's gap between their recti post-pregnancy. Doing sit-ups "bows" the muscles, which, look awesome as a six pack, but, aren't very powerful as they are long, thin muscles.

The strength comes from the deeper muscles, which look exactly like a corset, and do exactly what a corset does.

And, remember, fat isn't just stored on the outside, but, round organs too.

I stand by it - with good technique and a desire to show off at the gym, sit ups are fine. But, with any prolapse of pf insufficiency, you're going to either fart, piss yourself or your fanny will eventually fall out.

Ooo Katnip ....sorry have put my glasses on now. lol

Have you read all of this thread Katie...? Your pf seems compromised already so maybe you could take on board some of our experiences. A lot of us used to run so we do know what we are discussing here.

Katnip - nope, sorry, I don't agree with your last statement.

No one needs to put up with it.

No one.

Not people with two kids and an active lifestyle. Not people who are obese, depressed, elderly, disabled, unwell or who have had 15 kids.

80% of ALL incontinence issues can be improved with good management - that includes folk who have conditions like MS, stroke, fibroids. Only confusion really challenges continence teams.

Any leaking, of poo or pee, at all, at any time is abnormal.

I'm glad it's not interfering with anything for you, but, I'd push for you to add the caveat of "yet".

Keep doing your exercises, and, consider getting an assessment - you might find you've got an element of dysfunction or prolapse that can be treated.

But, the one thing I want people to know is that you don't need to put up with it.

and strenuous cardio like running etc is bad for a women's pelvic floor

Rubbish.

Try:

Reduced risk of heart disease
Improved blood cholesterol levels
Improved heart function
Reduced risk of osteoporosis
Improved muscle mass
Improved brain function
Improved mental health

Don't run too fast girls, it make your bits fall out.

Gussie hope yoy don't mind my asking but how are your pelvic floors? What exercises do you do?

Learn - that's really disappointing.

He's asking because sometimes that's the only symptom women experience, and, it's also not one they offer up without prompting.

I'd also have shut up. And, I agree, he sounds like an arse.

it depends on why your tummy isn't flat. in my case (a pearshape) a poochy tummy IS easily fixed by stronger abdominals because I'm naturally lean around my waist anyway (I carry my fat on my thighs and bottom - much less easy to hide). but yes, if you have fat around the middle, then stronger abdominal muscles will always be hidden behind some fat, though it will still be improved. you don't want fat AND slack abdominals making a pooch.

my running days, though, are over. Cycling and swimming for me.

Learn - I'm sorry you've had to put up with painful bits, it's one of the most wearing and exasperating things to live with.

The dragging sensation, worse when you are standing/walking could be a prolapse. As can painful sex - you've got a bit in the way, and it can be very uncomfortable while it's there.

But, from the way you describe your symptoms, it might be a pelvic floor dysfunction (or, both!).

PFD is too tight a pelvic floor. Think of it like a muscle spasm in your neck after a whiplash. Exquisitely tender, sore if the muscle works or is stretched and can ache for hours. PFs are muscles like any other - and it's not unusual to get trigger points or muscle spasm, particularly if you had tears/episiotomies with birth. Or, if you've had non-childbirth injury, surgery or radiation therapy to your pelvis.

Let someone have a poke about in your bits. Spasm is really easy to diagnose, and responds beautifully to treatment.

And, it's worth mentioning, an orgasm is in part a flickering contraction of your pelvic floor. So, if your pf is strong, so are your orgasms. ANd, if it's tied up in knots it is really, really difficult to achieve orgasm. Sexual function is part of your pf's job, so, it wouldn't be surprising that your sexual response is disrupted at the moment.

Go and see your GP and get a referral. And, DON'T do the exercises - if you do have spasm that'll only make it worse.

Gussie I don't feel old enough to be menopausal. So weird . I'm 52 so of course I am but just didn't feel ready if you know what I mean.

We're not talking about toned pelvic floors here for vanities sake Katie were talking prolapses and how to prevent them and deal with them and strengthening the pf muscles.

Milly - post menopause is really common. The hormonal changes mean your connective tissue loses a lot of it's elasticity (wrinkles and sorry-for-themselves-bosoms) and that means your pf drops down a bit so becomes mechanically insufficient.

Bloody gravity.

and strenuous cardio like running etc is bad for a women's pelvic floor.

TBH, all the pilates core stability stuff is better for tummy flattening. Way better.

Core stability is very important but it won't flatten anything without combining it with strenuous cardio exercise, such as running, dancing etc.

I can say "yes" to some of those pelvic floor problems, but only the same amount before and after children. A few months after children there were more issues, especially after DD2, but I have always done pf exercises and core stability exercise which engages the pelvic floor, right from my teens and straight after birth. Still had a bit of incontinence with coughing/sneezing up to a year after DD1 and DD2 though, and certainly after/during any high-impact exercise- skipping in circuit training used to set me off, OMG. I've always gone to the loo a lot, but drink a lot of water, and can hold it if I need to.

I always (even before children) needed to go to the loo a lot before running, especially with races, but I put that down to nervous tension. Occasionally now I wee a bit near the end of a run, or after running uphill or some other strenuous effort but only a tiny bit and I've usually needed the loo most of the way round as I've had too much water before setting off. Basically now I drink less water before the run and sip more during and most of the time it's fine. Getting water intake right for running is a bit of a art though.

I had a lot of pain and soreness during and after sex the first time and for several occasions after that, not enough to stop me...a lot of people said it only hurt the first time and I found that was er, not the case. After that I have only occasionally had soreness after sex, but only if we'd be doing it, er, a lot.

What I'm saying though is none of this I find a particular problem. I think, yes everyone should do the exercises, and with caution as an overly tense pf can be a huge problem as well. But we are all made differently, and there isn't such a thing as normal/abnormal female genitalia or pelvic platform. If you have got a problem then see your GP and shout and stamp until it gets resolved if need be. But also it can be just another thing you have to have - beautiful husband, children, home, body, beautifully toned pelvic floor - Sigh.

ohmaigawsh, my anaesthetist-comedy-chum has just sent me this...

Suman Biswas does a Jagger Bladder song

love it.

Cross post.

Please try again, maybe you can ask to see a woman as a way to avoid the same gynae?