diet v exercise

glad you didn't mind, I genuinely thought this was one of the general running/training threads!

cooking proper food is definitely a big help and needn't be difficult

(just popped back to say I tried the banoffee flavour, a caffeinated one I think but was wasted drinking last night so needed the help and it was absolutely fine, I feel confident that I have something I can use on the Very Long Runs now but will save them for that and carry on doing as much as possible in a fasted state for now but thank you thistledew for the recommendation!)

I know -we have rather hijacked! Sorry OP!

You should start your own thread - or a marathon runners one. There is a half-marathon thread with quite a few posters, so I would bet you are not the only one.

I am completely in awe of anyone doing a marathon. I only took up running this year to do triathlon and am just in the last few weeks pushing up from 5k to 10k - I ran 7k today and only just enjoyed it. Quite happy to spend 6-7 hours on the bike though!

they're not even NEW new shoes, I mean they are new but they are the same as my old ones - just needed a spare pair, the others aren't drying out and I go through watery ditches and things and they smell unbelievably bad - did have thicker socks on too

have only just realised this is a sort of generic thread about dieting and exercise and not Mitchy's Marathon Training Diary, sorry OP

raspberry ripple, I think there are two of everything, quite a big packet - I filtered out the caffeinated one after a very traumatic 10 mile + run that felt like one long panic attack

prob have a day off tomorrow but Saturday is 15 miles and I will need fuel so please let them work ok then as will be with Other People (is one thing gargling vomit on the run by oneself, is another in company)

That doesn't sound good about your poor foot though! I didn't think even new trainers were supposed to rub.

I'm glad the Torq gel seems to suit your stomach Mitchy. I thought it would not be much more than the placebo effect to fuel whilst exercising, but from experience I am now quite convinced of how it can improve your performance.

I'm sorry that you didn't like the taste though! What flavour did you try? I'm not a fan of their banana and mango, but the rhubarb and custard I could happily eat all day. DH loves the raspberry ripple. I tend to go for the strawberry or cherry yogurt ones first of all, and to keep a rhubarb and custard in reserve for when I am struggling and need a real pick me up. I like their energy drinks as well. My favourite is pink grapefruit as it is not too sweet. The lemon and lime is nice too.

I havent read all of the posts but I think you can diet without exercising to lose weight (think of all the Weightwatchers / Slimming World plans - exercise isn't really part of the diet). Having said that I wouldnt recommend it as exercise is v important.

Similarly exercise isnt enough. I trained for the marathon earlier this year and for 4 months, I ran about 40 miles a week (a conservative calorie burn is 100 cals per mile so about 4000cals a week). But I didnt lose a pound (although I toned up and got fit) because I didnt watch what I ate - I allowed myself anything.

Now I'm doing much less exercise but eating better and i'm losing weight. Its personal, what works for you, but i definitely think its healthier and better to combine the 2. Good luck!'

I tried a torq thing today, wasn't a very long run but I broke my 10 minute mile barrier suspiciously easily (especially mainly uphill and in new shoes). I have no skin left on my right heel but had no abdominal crises either :)

they taste fucking awful though, worse than the high5, but that is not the important thing

oh cross posted

I LOVE marzipan, I could try that too - obviously with commercial products they are very easy to dose and keep track of (not that have ever used them in the recommended amounts, only for more than 10 miles and only one every 5 or 6 miles) and then Garmin can analyse it all for me and show which ones are actual rocket fuel

I've ordered a trial pack of the torq gels, sooner or later I will find something that suits me (I hope) or have a go at making my own if necessary. As far as 'recovery products' go I am happy with scrambled or poached eggs on toast after a long run . Can't be bothered to read all that stuff about electrolytes though. What is the gist of it?

I completely agree about the scepticism of companies with something to sell suzanne, but I do think these guys are pretty genuine. As I said, earlier this year I had real problems with pains in my legs and cramps and I emailed them to ask for some advice. They sent me a completely personalised response and although they were of course recommending their products, they didn't just say "You need to take ALL of our products ALL of the time" but said "this will help with this bit of your training program but there is no need to use this other thing unless you are doing XYZ".

I don't work for them BTW!

I have just thought to recommend something that my friend swears by for intense training sessions rather than gels. It only works if you like the stuff but she always trains with a slice of marzipan in her pocket. She cuts slices off a big block and pinches pieces off whenever she needs a boost. She says it is good for keeping a bit in your cheek and sucking it slowly - might be worth trying if your gut doesn't like too much in one go, and hugely cheaper than gels too!

I just had a look at the Torq website and their discussion of the panorama programme about sports supplements.

it all seems pretty reasonable but I'm always a bit skeptical of science when it's presented by a company with a product or service to sell.

Of course I shouldnt knock it unless I've tried it and since I get indigestion from drinking water I dont expect I will be trying it anytime soon :o

I always exercise in a fasted state these days (not marathon or similar training through!) and have found I'm losing body fat quicker than when I exercised soon after eating. I'm another whose digestion suits frequent and long rests from food though.

he is always writing stuff about this sort of thing, collating all the evidence so far etc

I followed his Racing Weight thing and now look like a bone

matt fitzgerald

Um, I don't think so! Who he?

It is actually a small handbook produced by the guys at Torq, but it explains in detail the science behind their energy and recovery products. I was having real problems at the beginning of this summer with lactic pains in my legs right from the beginning of a training session. I followed their advice on fuelling more during rides and using recovery products and it definitely helped me to be able to train harder and more consistently.

was it a Matt Fitzgerald one? you sound a bit like him :)

Thistle, thanks for taking the time to explain all that, very interesting!
(I'm wondering what the book is...the one that you seem to have mislaid? )

am sure cycling is pretty much the same sort of thing, maybe harder on the knees but same energy needs?

in non running life it suits me to eat loads of tiny meals, suits my tummy anyway - am finding the how much to eat and what and when along with the how much to run and when quite challenging. run less and eat more definitely helped so my experience agrees with you, just needs fine tuning!

Mitchy - I suggest you try some other brands as I have heard of lots of people finding their stomach rejects high5. I use Torq products, which are a bit pricier than some other brands but they have less artificial crap and I find them very digestible. They are not overly sweet either.

With regards to the nutrition whist exercising, I am not a marathon runner so I don't know if there is anything specific to that as a discipline, but I do cycle on a weekly basis for 3-4 hours at a fairly high intensity.

What I have leant from various experts in sport nutrition is that it is better to fuel your long-distance events, even if losing weight is one of your goals. You simply cannot sustain a high level of intensity for more than 90 mins or so without taking on fuel. You will be unable to work as hard, and so you won't be working at the same fat-burning intensity. You will take longer to recover if you don't fuel as you go along, so if you are training several times a week, you will again be unable to work at as high an intensity on each subsequent workout.

Your body takes quite some time to break down fat to use as fuel, and it will not be able to do so in meaningful amounts whilst you are exercising. It certainly can't do so at a sufficient rate to fuel intense exercise. The 'burning' of body fat happens in the recovery period whilst you are still in a calorie deficit from your exercise.

If you are aiming for weight loss at the same time as doing a very demanding sport, you are much better off aiming for a slow and steady loss than anything dramatic. You might think "excellent, I have burned 1,500 calories today, I will lose a shed load of fat" but if you do that several times a week you will end up seriously weakening your body and making yourself unable to train properly, if at all. You are better off aiming for a deficit of no more than maybe 500 calories (inexact figure, I might correct this when I find my book that I seem to have mislaid) per session, so you can keep working hard, recovering well, and training hard again the next session.

Oh yeah for events like that I understand that you'd need to!
I couldn't cope, I have terrible indigestion and need to rest for a couple of hours after even small amounts of food.

I do like jelly babies though :o

you still act like a carbicidal maniac the rest of the time, as far as I can tell, but I don't know if it is possible or desirable to run very long distances without any stuff on the way? the elites have their own special sugary drinks made for them don't they, and mortals seem to use jelly babies and stuff

no you have to, I don't know of anyone running marathons and ultramarathons without taking fuel on board

my 'coach' (friend but he is coaching me and will pace me during the event) eats pizza and sandwiches while he is running but he runs very very very long distances (100km and up)

Consuming food whilst exercising surely just diverts blood to your digestive system when you need it all to be in your muscles.

I thought it was best to carb load in the days before hand rather than refuel in flight

Also, afaik as glycogen reserves get lower fat is broken down to be burnt as fuel.

Most people have enough stored fat to go for quite some time. ..otherwise we'd all drop dead after a couple of days fasting!