How long can people live like this?

Same here. The thought of living like that terrifies me. I'd rather die, that doesn't scare me as much. (It scares me more now I have DS, but as long as I live long enough to get him to adulthood, I think he'll be okay.)

But in practice it isn't working out like that is it?

Look at what is happening in countries that have adopted it. If it was truly as you said then I would have no arguments against it.

It has already been abused. And I have seen no compelling ideas capable of preventing that abuse. So in that case I don't want the state to legalise killing a human being in any circumstances.

My great grandmother died at 80 after a short illness, one day she seemed fine, then she was in hospital and died shortly afterwards. She wasn't in a care home, she was independent up until her last few days. I'd much rather go like that than be bed bound for years.

Assisted dying would give people a CHOICE of when to die. It would give people autonomy over the timing of their death.

Dh and I have both added paragraphs to our Health and Welfare Ps of A that go roughly, ‘If I should develop dementia, or any other condition where I can no longer both care for myself, and speak (with full mental capacity) for myself, then I emphatically do not want any life saving or life-prolonging treatment. I ask for palliative care only.’

We can't have assisted dying. I don't want to feel obliged to shuffle off this mortal coil when society deems I'm no longer useful.

I have seen people literally rotting away in beds. The patient and their families distraught for months and even years.
I blame the medical establishment. They are too macho in their approach to "We can cure everything". They reduce a patient to a series of conditions, chest infection, leg ulcers, hypertension, kidney failure, and treat each individually, Instead of looking at what is best for the whole person and giving them the chance to decline.
Sorry to disparage a whole profession but sometimes I think the only thing that medics and pharmacists have in their toolkit is a selection of drugs, so they feel like they have to provide something.
IME, Nurses, social workers, carers, OTs, have the time and skillset, to see the bigger picture and they treat the patient and the family with more compassion.
We let out 17 year old dog leave with dignity, we had to watch my poor 90 year old mother, suffer and die in absolute agony for months. Each day begging to be "let go".

It is awful and cruel to see. Some of my grandparents lived to late 90s with very poor quality of life. My grandma was in a home with dementia for over a decade, no communication, just a shell of herself. Lived to 101.

Now my mum is 89 with dementia and I am dreading a prolonged, miserable life for her. She already finds much less joy in life and can do very little (due to poor vision too) and all the things that made her her are slipping away. She can occasionally have a conversation but can't remember much recent, and mostly talks about her childhood, but she doesn't make enough sense for anyone to join in. She doesn't even have the comfort of memories to look back on. She has lost her love of music, sadly, which used to be a great source of joy to her. I already feel like I've lost her, yet we're looking after her - it's very cruel. It's destroying my dad who looks after her.

I don't know what the answer is but I agree OP. We all expect our parents to die before us but some circumstances can be extremely painful.

IS private equity firms are buying up care homes.

But the ‘pause’ can go on many years to the detriment of our husbands, children, jobs, mental and physical health in the prime of our lives when they’ve had the best of theirs. It’s natural to feel put out.
It is a burden. There’s no denying it. I’d recognise myself as a burden in that state too.
We choose to have children. They owe us nothing.
At the very least we need to seriously consider this shift modern medicine has allowed to promote frail, demented, poor quality life at all costs.

I used to work in a centre where elderly people would be dropped off for lunch, catch up with friends.
One lovely man I still remember vividly now, he had lost his wife, his sight, he couldn’t eat much without having to go to the toilet but would quite often soil himself because due to mobility issues he could t get their fast enough.
He told me that when he woke up each morning he always had a little cry because he had woken up again, to live a day in darkness, no visitors and the struggle to keep himself neat and clean once carers had left.
He was in his younger days (from the photos he showed) always immaculately dressed, an avid walker, loved socialising, parties and dancing.
He was late 90’s when he died but he always said that he had wished someone would put him out of his misery.

But a lot of them don't want to live their lives out. Who on earth would want to be kept alive when they don't even recognise or remember their own children/grandchildren, need to be spoon fed or even tube fed and are doubly incontinent. They can't walk, talk, read, watch TV or have any sort of conversation. Their quality of life is zero/nil.

Would you like to be kept alive in that situation? I certainly would not.

In my DM’s dementia-only care home, which I have to say was very good, I saw more than once residents being coaxed and badgered to eat and drink when they no longer wanted to. I know it was done with the best of intentions, but to me it was distressing to see the poor old things whimpering and repeatedly turning their heads away.

I vowed that there would be so such thing for my DM, already over 90, and had already agreed with staff that there would be no hospital* - in any case a terrible place for anyone with dementia, when they can’t understand what is going on or why - and no ‘striving to keep alive’.

*Except in the case of e.g. a 2nd broken hip - she’d already survived one at over 90, and went on to 97, but her very frail appearance belied the fact that she evidently possessed the general constitution of a rhinoceros.

The thing is, I am 66. My great grandparemts died in their 80s when I was a child, 6 or 7. My great grandma had a breast removed just before I was born. The C word was never discussed. When I was about 5 she became unwell and was unable to get out of her bed for the last six months, becomong weaker. The family dr visited but there was no mention of hospital. Family cared for her. It probably was cancer but quite swift and was regarded as old age.

Great grandad got a cough and cold about.two years later, the cough lodged on his chest and he died of pneumonia within a few days of going to hospital.

They were 84 and 86.

Fast forward to my gran and she went the whole way with alzheimers, starting at about 72. Her lasy five years were spent in a geristric MH unit, state funded and bloody marvellous. Towards the end she hsd forgotten how to eat, how to swallow, she was 4.5 stone and on a family funded vibrating bed to prevent bed sores. There were two reasons for this: my mother and grandad visited daily, feeding her until she couldn't swallow, helping her drink from a sippy cup, mother did her washing and her hair to keep her presentable. Had they not done that, I've no doubt she'd have died two or three years earlier. The other reason: she was fundamentally fit and strong and had no underlying disease.

I do think much of the issue is that we now treat all of the illnesses we never used to and that people simply don't have the information or the agency to consider the data and make informed choices about what treatments to accept. I have no doubt whatsoever, that if mother, 90, develops a cancer, she will want the chemo, etc. We can't have doctors making that decision but few are able to make an informed decision about quality of life over quantity.

I have decided that if I get.to 80, I'm going to take-up smoking again and have three glasses of wine a day.

We need to focus less on cure and more on comfort and pain relief.

Saved me from writing this Sparkle.

The whole thing suggests to me severe disability has no right to exist. In effect people are suggesting we should live in a utopian society where life is only determined by youth & productivity,minus tolerance or regard for the individual end of life process whether short or long.

You need to be more self aware - do better!

I don't follow what's happening with that bill about end of life care ,but church had some leaflets telling us to email to say we are against it ,
Personally I'm absolutely terrified of dying ..I think Ive lost my faith ,no longer really deep down believe in god , and slightly worried by the time I'm at the stage the op is discussing here ,my DC will just pull the plug , because by law they will be able to make that decision

How dare you.

the many moving stories on here by people who deeply love their parents and have been forced to watch their suffering and distress and you accuse us of caring about inheritance? How dare you.

I think at that stage they have to make a choice. My grandad had said to my dad I don’t want to be alive anymore and in the least callous way my dad said well stop taking the medicines that are keeping you. You don’t have to take them that’s your choice and we understand your tired and ready. He continued to take them he wasn’t in a nursing home and wasn’t bed bound but a bit fed up with life I think by 96

Vaccinating against flu and covid is a tricky ethical dilemma. I agreed to DM being vaccinated not to protect her but to protect the carers who look after her.

Define living ?

My DM has advanced vascular dementia, bedbound, doubly incontinent, kidney failure, diabetes. She doesnt know who she is let alone anyone else. Yet somehow she is still here.

The one blessing of her dementia is that she doesnt know her situation. On the thankfully rare occasions she is lucid she is distressed and miserable.

So many times she has got to the brink then somehow pulled back. But each time a bit less has come back.

I sometimes worry that she is going to live on forever.

My dad is worried about this eventuality, having seen this happen to his mother. He said he’d rather kill himself so that no money is wasted looking after him. It truly is him that is saying this. In no way have me and my siblings given the impression he would ever be a burden. I think the look on my face when he said that shocked him

Yes had two relatives like that
I think we underestimate how little food the body actually needs to do basic functions

It’s possible when sorting power of attorney for health and welfare to specify that you only want medical treatment or interventions that prevent you being in pain. I’m not sure it is the answer though as it seems to effectively be signing up for dying by slow starvation for some people. Ironically for my father the visiting GP over-rode that instruction to give him the Covid jab even after he successfully fought the virus itself a couple of weeks before. He had a quick death a week later.