How long can people live like this?

You don't have any experience of the hell some people go through with elderly parents do you! Your comment is utterly disgusting! You think every elderly parent is a happy little sweetie that's a ray of sunshine and that as kids we are scumbags that just want their money?

My 75 year old mother has had mental health issues since having her first child at 21, in the last ten years since our dad died she has put my brother and I and our aunt through hell! She has threatened suicide countless times, she has been on Diazepams and lorazepams for 46 years and uses them as a weapon! She even tried to get me to sign a DNR which would have dropped me right in it as a will beneficiary if she'd topped herself after I signed it. She's very mentally abusive, used to be very violent to us when we were kids, she's narcissistic. And her behaviour is getting worse because her metabolism is slowing and not processing the drugs in her system quick enough so she's clumsy and more delusional!
You have no right to judge people in such a horrible way! I'm not going to stop her killing herself, I'm tired of threats and wish she'd just do it! Ever had your mother tell you that she's left you money on the mantle piece to have her dog put to sleep once we find her dead?

Seeing. That is awful for him.

Could you explore some sort of statement saying no more interventions. I guess he doesn’t have capacity which is a warning to us all to get our wishes in writing.

Will someone be giving him Covid and flu jabs shortly?

The shareholders certainly want it. I know of one group of nursing homes (think 13 in total) in N Ireland where the pretax profit a couple of years ago was £20M.

I am so sorry about your father @Seeingadistance . 💐 I take it you've spoken to the staff about these treatments, what do they say about it? I don't think history will judge us very kindly for putting our old people through this mindless torment.

Good for her. That’s lovely. My DF’s Alzheimer’s became apparent 12 years ago, when he was 80. For the past 4 years he has been in a nursing home. When he went in he was totally immobile, extremely confused and needed to be dressed, washed, toileted and hoisted from bed to chair etc. Since then and for the past 2 years at least he has lost almost all control over his body apart being able to move his head slightly to the right and some movement in his right arm. He has no facial expressions other than when in distress when he groans and bites his one hand or the hand of anyone who tries to stop him. He is spoon fed mush and he hasn’t been able to speak at for over a year now. The loss of speech was something of a mercy for us as for the previous 3 years all he did say, repeatedly, was “Help me, please. Help me.”

This thread isn’t about elderly people with a reasonable or good quality of life, however frail they might be. It’s about people like my poor DF whose continuing existence is completely and utterly miserable. And yet he gets antibiotics for every infection and his flu and Covid jags! Great effort is made to ensure he gets calorie dense food and remains well hydrated.

I’m sorry that was a bit of a rant. To be fair to those who really don’t get it - they are almost certainly in the very fortunate position of not knowing just how horrific this extended end of life can be.

Does this include the lady who says she left granny in a tent to die? Surely hers takes the top spot on the disgust level?

I blame the litigation threats. Doctors backs are against the wall in many cases. Families will often sue if they see a glimmer of money in the wings.
We had this discussion at our last bible study, and although for reasons not needed here, we did not support assisted dying, we all agreed that interventions have gone too far. Keeping someone out of pain is kind, keeping them alive against natural odds is not.
I just want to add that from a Christian point of view, it is absolutely acceptable to pray for a fair and kindly death for someone suffering.
Its modern life...its not easy.

Good for her. That’s lovely. My DF’s Alzheimer’s became apparent 12 years ago, when he was 80. For the past 4 years he has been in a nursing home. When he went in he was totally immobile, extremely confused and needed to be dressed, washed, toileted and hoisted from bed to chair etc. Since then and for the past 2 years at least he has lost almost all control over his body apart being able to move his head slightly to the right and some movement in his right arm. He has no facial expressions other than when in distress when he groans and bites his one hand or the hand of anyone who tries to stop him. He is spoon fed mush and he hasn’t been able to speak at for over a year now. The loss of speech was something of a mercy for us as for the previous 3 years all he did say, repeatedly, was “Help me, please. Help me.”

This thread isn’t about elderly people with a reasonable or good quality of life, however frail they might be. It’s about people like my poor DF whose continuing existence is completely and utterly miserable. And yet he gets antibiotics for every infection and his flu and Covid jags! Great effort is made to ensure he gets calorie dense food and remains well hydrated.

I’m sorry that was a bit of a rant. To be fair to those who really don’t get it - they are almost certainly in the very fortunate position of not knowing just how horrific this extended end of life can be.

And? Are we too important to have "burdens" as part of natural life processes? Are you suggesting that burdens and inconvenience is unacceptable to us so ...what is your solution? Not coping mechanisms, support or realistic expectations? Only extinction will suffice so we, who are younger and whilst we are younger, are comfortable?

Someone is making a lot of money out of this and effectively bankrupting the country.

could not agree more.

nobody wants this.

Yes. No one wants to say this. Both parents funded their own care and clearly others who weren’t getting the same funding from local authorities. Someone is making an awful lot of money out of all of this and effectively bankrupting the country.

My grandmother lived until 97 and could still chat away happily until the last month of her life. She wanted to continue living in her care home and still valued her life.

If you can keep someone alive and you don't, surely that's the same as euthanasia?

Do you really not get this? They are effectively vegetables and suffering. Do you have some sort of religious views on this. Have you EVER supported an elderly person screaming to die, suffering, not recognising you, wetting themselves, having fall after fall, UTI after UTI?

Sitting listening to some Doctor doing yet another memory test and smugly patting themselves on the back.

No, I didn’t think so..

These sorts of views make me boiling mad. They clearly have no idea.

Have a look at Hospice Nurse Julie on Youtube.

One of her videos is entitled I'm a Hospice Nurse. Here's what I'd do if I got dementia and is an eye opening prompt to really plan end of life care before losing capacity. This includes making choices about being intubated, tube fed, treated for infections, etc. as well as resuscitation.

Watching it has given me a lot to think about.

If you can keep someone alive and you don't, surely that's the same as euthanasia?

If you can keep someone alive and you don't, surely that's the same as euthanasia?

The doctor should do what the patient wants. And if they don't have capacity, then they should do what is in the best interests of the patient. The wants of their family should not trump the patient's needs and desires.

But who makes that decision?

I'm not saying I disagree with you in principle, quite the opposite. But is it up to the elderly person themselves? The relatives? The doctor? What if the elderly person wants to die but the relatives want them to stay alive? What should the doctor do?

Why 'try and keep them alive' when they are very elderly and very ill with no quality of life? Just allowing them to die of natural causes is hardly killing them!

I'm so sorry to hear that - it's so hard to deal with it when you think medical negligence was involved. My family were very concerned about the palliative approach - but it turned out to be a kinder approach than all that brutal cancer treatment - I felt very sorry for my uncle - his cancer preoccupied the last few years of his life - my Dad rarely thought about it - to the extent that we often forgot about it too - I know that must seem mad but it was a non event to my dad.

It's so interesting to read your comment as my dad died from oesophageal cancer, they initially told him it was operable which was stupid because he hadn't had his pet scan at that point! When they did the scan it had metastasized to his liver and wasn't operable. He had two rounds of chemo to prolong his life but he ended up with sepsis from it wiping his immune system and it killed him. My family look upon in it as negligence which it kind of us but I think it was the better thing to happen to him! His tumours had actually shrunk but I always thought about the nasty death sentence he had ahead of his if he'd had to go through it all!

Even if it had been operable, the suffering afterwards for patients that had it sounded awful! When they cut part of your oesophagus out and pull your stomsch up to stitch it back together it's pretty horrific and the gastric issues long term sounded so grim.

If you can keep someone alive and you don't, surely that's the same as euthanasia?