Literally no one understands my reluctance to do personal care

I understand your response and position but I guess it doesn’t strictly help me understand why those that love their parents don’t feel obligated to do it out of love, on the basis that you don’t love yours.

I’m not critiquing those that don’t as as I said I can’t imagine ever having to do it, but similarly can’t imagine I’d ever find a way to rationalise not doing it for someone I love. So the lesser of two evils in some way.

I hope you find a way forward with your parents

It seems that the problem that these people are not capable of living independently and should be in residential care. Would be vastly more efficient to have careers in situ rather than the time wasted travelling between houses.
They do not have ‘capacity’ if they don’t have the capacity to do personal care for themselves.
My mother is now 85- does live by herself and fully capable of looking after herself. I live 2 hours away (so four hours round trip) and visit weekly but no more than that. She has hinted about moving near to me (pointless as she would beaway from her friends and hobbies (and gentleman friends who lives opposite😃)
In theory I could accommodate her in my house but don’t want to as would definitely end up in the impossible situation the OP and others have described. I intend to live a really full and busy life for the remaining time I have and not be guilted into being s carer.
My mother could sell her house and move into residential care when she needs it.

Im sure many people will understand you feelings ,some won't, thats OK because people are different in their capacity to cope with such personal matters.
The crux of this seems to be how you feel about doing intimate care for your DM in that you find it really difficult and uncomfortable ,although you do it if theres no alternative and the carers comments to you that make you feel pressured and uncomfortable.
Im wondering also,how your DM feels about this, who does she prefer to have intimate care from?
I cared for my father and husband when they were dying (they preferred care from me and although difficult it was my privilege to care for them.
My mother preferred professional care and i was relieved (like you i did help when no alternative)
If i need care i would prefer professional care too and wouldn't want my DD or DS to do my intimate care if at all possible. For full disclosure ,im a trained nurse. Ive had people say to me,please dont let my son or daughter or partner see me in mess and those who said id prefer my relative to do my care rather than a professional for a variety of valid reasons.
What i am saying is people both doing the care and being cared for have different feelings for complex reasons and thats ok.
Could you have a conversation with the carers perhaps explaining how difficult you find the intimate care and perhaps explaining your DM preferences.
I can see you care for your DM and you have additional health issues that affect your practical ability and psychological affects too. Tbh you sound burnt out.
I hope you can get the support you DM needs and stop feeling guilty.

At the end with my DF, I had no choice but to wipe his bum and clean up when he wet the floor. He was toileting multiple times a day. We had carers in 4 times a day, but he needed care between, and refused a home. It was awful and I became resentful. It was like having a baby, in one end and out the other. Not a way I want to remember him.

I refused, you are right no one thinks male relatives should get involved-m if you are paying for carers where is the problem, why would you pay them and do the work yourself?

I completely understand your perspective. I feel the same way. My mum wouldn’t want me to do her personal care either.

I could write a long post about my experience with Mum but in a nutshell I am with you on this. Mum’s carers would come in look at her and say ah she is asleep leave her. So I did some however they were supposed to do it as part of their job. Sadly it was only for a few weeks as she died but she didn’t want us to do it either.

When my mum was in hospital she needed personal care I was clear with staff my mum would have been mortified at me doing it so I wouldn’t be.

No it shouldn’t

OP I was in this situation with mum - she passed away in March. She was very dependent on care at the end (vascular dementia) and it was becoming increasingly difficult so I understand where you’re coming from.

Can I ask how old your mum is and specifically what type of personal care you’re talking about ? Given that she has carers I would assume washing/bathing is taken care of daily and that toileting is attended to on each visit.

Mum had accidents and needed changing and washing in between carer visits which was unavoidable. I have to say I found it very difficult at first, because, as you say, she was a parent, and it’s definitely different. But you do get used to it and in the end I managed to do it without thinking because it’s a necessary part of care - you can’t leave someone in need until the next care visit.

This is the part of your post I’m having trouble with - But, obviously, these things are likely to come up in the future. What I was trying to convey was that I am here to do what's needed in the absence of the carers, and will do what is needed, but that not wanting to commit to being the default person to do my mother's personal care is my boundary. Surely my post explained it clearly enough?

To my mind if you have taken on the responsibility of looking after your mum in your own home, then you are the default carer. The care package she has is designed to take some of the pressure off you - it’s not there to absolve you of all responsibility. If I’m reading it right then the carers are asking you to take part in her care while they’re there. That’s not on and you need to set a firm boundary - with the care agency if it’s an ongoing problem - that you expect them to take full responsibility while they are there, regardless of your presence.

However - and before I get jumped on, this is just a question and absolutely not an accusation - at any point have they arrived and found your mum has been left in a mess for them to deal with ? Because equally that’s not on either and I would expect them to report that back to the agency as it suggests neglect. I only ask because you said in your OP Just been through it yet again with one of the carers this afternoon, and yet again I've been met with looks of incomprehension but you don’t specify what exactly it was that you went through with them. If they’re happy with the care you’re giving in between visits, what exactly is it that they’re expecting from you ?

From experience, as things deteriorate care plans have to be adjusted along with the number and types of visits, and at some point, if you really don’t want to be the ‘default’ carer, full time residential care will need to be considered. Obviously I don’t know your circumstances as regards funding but it does sound as though it will be necessary at some point because unfortunately the nature of this is that things will get worse, not better. I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this, and kudos to you for opting to look after your mum at home - a very difficult choice.

Did your sil also help your mil get ready for bed?
And did you get roped into it, as your husband’s proxy, since he wasn’t allowed in the room?

There’s no compromise to be had here, if the OP is ultimately guilted into providing personal care; even if it takes the long way round to reach that point.

Th OP matters too. She shouldn’t have to sacrifice her quality of life for her mum, and her mum is incredibly selfish to still make her daughter do it, knowing full well that her daughter doesn’t want to.
Bless the OP, the discomfort must be etched on her face, when she does these jobs, but still puts on a brave face and does it anyway.

Full sympathy I was mocked by sil for not wanting to help mil get dressed for bed, I honestly found it so very hard, mil would not allow dh in the room, I felt I was being unreasonable saying no. In the end I avoided visiting. My mum used to wait till I arrived in the care home to ask if I could help her with the loo - I used to ask one of the carers to come and help - my mum said I was no daughter of hers. I just can’t.

You should not feel guilty about this. I am elderly and would absolutely not want my family to provide personal care.

I had to do this for my mum a few times…..she had a care package but on occasion had little accidents and I wasn’t leaving her soiled or wet until the next carer came. After the very first time of changing her she looked at me and gently said ‘this isn’t your job but thank you and I’m sorry ‘ and then burst into tears. I cried too. Giving personal care to a relative is poles apart from caring for a client on a work rota and I have done plenty of the latter. At least with a virtual stranger the client does retain a fraction of dignity 💐

Sympathies op. So many women put in the position of having to provide personal care. I was a nurse, have changed nappies and loved my Mum dearly. But I really struggled doing personal care for her in her final months. There is no comparison between caring for infants or strangers and caring for a parent. Some people show empathy while others literally do need to "walk a mile in another (wo)man's moccasins" before they understand fully.xx

I'm totally with you OP.

People like a certain poster trying to make out that we should do it "Out of love" have obviously had different childhoods to some of us.

My mother never showed my sister and me much love. Frankly I don't know why she had kids. We didn't love her and certainly wouldn't have done any personal care for her.

You reap what you sow.

I would point blank refuse to do it. Firstly, paid carers are there to do personal care. Secondly, both my parents have made explicitly clear that they do not WANT me to do personal care for them (my dad has a terminal illness so despite only being in their late fifties/early sixties sadly we have discussed wishes at length), and they feel very very strongly about that.

In an emergency, of course I would rather than leave either of them soiled, but it is against their wishes and I will respect that. We’d like to preserve our relationship dynamic as long as possible. My parents are lucky enough to be well off and can pay for any care they may need so this is something that we are privileged enough to be able to do.

Full respect to any full time carers out there, I cannot imagine the mental and physical toll.

Totally with you here. I am a registered nurse and cared for both of my parents through terminal illness at home, did no personal care at all and my parents wouldn't have wanted me too, they would have been mortified.

OP ignore the naysayers, and the sanctimonious martyrs. This is not an uncommon feeling, and as you said, men wouldn’t even be asked about this.

You know what you are able for and where your boundaries lie, and I also feel like you do when it cones to my mother.

I did help to care for my father when he had dementia, and it nearly broke me, and did have to help clean him up a few times after accidents, which thankfully were rare.

Eventually he went into a nursing home, and the carer told me one day they would find it hard to do care (toileting, washing etc.) for their own parent - she said it’s so different at work because they’re trained for it, paid to do it, and not emotionally involved with the person, so can leave it behind at the end of the day.

I have a very different relationship with my mother, as she is a totally different personality, very demanding and difficult. She is currently at home and has carers in twice a day. So far she is still continent, but a few months ago she had a bad UTI and a few accidents, so I helped out with that, and I was surprised at how hard I found it.

At the time I felt you do, and I don’t think she understood how difficult it was to step into that role with her. I don’t want to bathe and dress her, I want to be her daughter.
Maybe it’s because we have a difficult relationship at the best of times, I don’t know. But I will be putting boundaries in place for the future.

I just wanted you to know you are not alone in feeling like this.

There is no way I would do personal care for either of my parents. They don't require assistance now, they are in their late eighties, but I do worry about what may happen in the future.

My in-laws always said the line for them was personal care. For them and for their children caring for them. Terribly sad as one of them has now gone into a home. It was something they spoke about long before it would need to be considered. They are respecting their own wishes.

When I was 19 I suffered from a medical episode, it meant I needed additional personal care while recovering- my own Mum was amazing but it made me always say if it happened again when older I’m not so sure I would want a family memeber to need to care for me in that way.

I did 3 1/2 years of caring for my father including at times personal care. It nearly killed me.
He had carers booked but they didn't turn up until late (11am for a breakfast call) and I found out those with resident family get pushed to the back). It is the most difficult job I've ever done. I nursed my mother through bowel cancer (with stoma) and I would never want to do it again.

My husband nursed me through series illness last year and it included at times personal care. He insisted along with my adult children.
My DH has had some medical training ,ditto my DD.

Personally I think if you have the money for carers you should hire them. People who gilt trip their family are being unreasonable.
Good luck OP

Yeah that sounds more like skiving frankly.

You have one good self employed carer - can she recommend another from her local network? My experience also was that-self employed independents were much better and more reliable than agency carers whose quality varied wildly. I've never had an independent carer challenge my requirements or expect the nearest female relative to do their job for them. Good carers will often make suggestions but not guilt trip the women in the family to do key aspects of their job.

Speak to the agency and point out you are paying them for a service and their carers seem reluctant to provide that service. Look at other agencies as well.

You do not have to justify a carer just because you are in the house. Most adults in this situation do prefer a professional for the more intimate aspects of care.

As for "you changed a baby's nappy" nonsense. If people really cannot differentiate between changing the nappy of a wanted child in happy anticipation of them growing up and doing the same for an ageing parent as part of their dying process then I can only assume they are particularly stupid.

I imagine the op has to compromise an awful lot having her mother living with her.
we are all made differently and some of us just can't give personal care to another adult , parent or not and shouldn't have to defend themselves about it.