Hoarding and a fall - what to expect

Can your husband go and clear stuff then?

Moving it upstairs is pointless and sounds like no room anyway. And even if it was upstairs - if he can’t get up the stairs he wouldn’t know it was up there anyway… So just bin it.

I'm afraid I did something like this in a desperate panic to make my relative's home safe for discharge after a terrible accident at home. I did discuss it with them in hospital but I doubt if they remember much of that. I'm mostly forgiven.

You get that's illegal right? As well as being a massive breach of trust.

My dad was a hoarder, there isn’t much you can do really. He was also in shared ownership, his flat was packed with newspapers too. After he died it took a huge effort to clear it out, and all the papers were binned. We tried to sort it when he was alive, but he wouldn’t let us make much of a dent, even though he said he wanted a tidy place. It’s heartbreaking. If you clear the stuff without their permission I can predict it won’t go well. Good luck.

The fire brigade can come out and do an assesment. If I remember for my relative they fitted more smoke alarms. I recently flagged their hoard with GP and Council. GP called me, they were concerned flagged it with fire brigade I think. relative kicked off and ultimately gp is powerless unless they engage and want to clear it (which they don’t) never did hear back from council although they already have a support worker who seems to think that taking two small bags to charity shop as week contributed a significant effort to clearing it. However at the same time they are still buying at the same time they are emptying and probably at a faster rate.

They had one fall - managed to get themselves up but this is my concern that they won’t next time, they have no alarm.

Sorry posted and it won’t let me edit typos.

Are you offering to help clear the hoard? Or are you wanting to object to him being allowed home with the stuff all moved upstairs and him washing in a downstairs sink? Or are you worried about / trying to prevent him falling again?

What’s your relationship to the elderly person? Can you influence them at all - to wear a pendant, to not cancel carers? Do you visit them or do any hand on care for them, bring them shopping etc? Do they need personal care ie help to wash, dress, eat and drink, take meds, go to the toilet etc?

Still not clear what your role in this is. You don’t have POA and in any case he apparently has capacity so you are not able to intervene in the decision to discharge. Are you offering to help clear the board? Or are you waiting to object to him being allowed home with the stuff all moved upstairs and him washing in a downstairs sink? Or him falling again?

What’s your relationship to the elderly person? Can you influence them at all - to wear a pendant, to not cancel carers? Do you visit them or do any care for them?

I’ve no idea why he wants to keep all the stuff, mostly newspapers.

It's just because he's a hoarder. And I'm not bring snippy - it's what they do.
He won't be able to explain why he keeps them, and at this stage it's irrelevant.

Even if the papers are moved upstairs, or even thrown out, he'll just acquire more.

Sorry, I haven't got any useful advice. You have my sympathy. Hoarding is a very difficult thing to address.

Have the safeguarding team suggested a referral to the local fire safety community team at all?

Staff from that team would assess the home in terms of fire risks linked to the hoard and potential barriers to rescue.
If the household is willing to engage, they would set clearance targets for specific areas within the home.

I work in a hospital and have done time working for the discharge team organising packages of care etc before discharges. I dealt with a couple of hoarding cases and in both cases the houses had to be at a safe level for people to return. I always remember one family said they had to basically get skips and clear things to allow their relative home it was really sad - they showed me some photos on their phones and there was all sorts of stuff just piled up, it was a fire hazard and the patient was as desperate to go home but he was told not until it was sorted.

The other case was a woman and she was in a council property and the council said it posed a man environmental health risk and they went in and cleared but were really good and kept paperwork and photos and stuff but she was very traumatised by it all but apparently she’d been given lots of opportunities to sort it out and hadn’t so they had to intervene as it was affecting neighbouring flats as she had tonnes of stuff in the garden and rats nesting.

Housing and health are 2 very different areas.... And different to adult social services.

The hospital may be trying to get him back home if they need to free up the bed. The adult social services working with occupational therapy at the hospital are the people who ensure the house is safe. Depending on the type of local authority (unitary or district) it may be that social services and housing are 2 different organisations. In a district it is the county council that looks after adult social services and the district does housing.

The landlord ( rented) or retained equity leasor ( shared ownership) looks after the fabric of the building.... Generally unless it is truly owned by the council it will be owned by a housing association. Most houses that have council nomination rights are owned by housing associations. They do not have an obligation to provide social or health care. They look after the fabric of the building... Other leaseholders can report issues if the hoarding impacts their safety.

If your relative is in a shared ownership house then it will be the health or social care peeps you need to speak to.... Although without power of attorney they will be limited as to what they can discuss.

If it is shared ownership it is not rented. They are very different with the landlord obligations that are very different to a leasor obligation.

Edited to make it grammatically correct.

What does his lease / shared ownership agreement say? Has anyone asked the HA? I imagine they have plenty of clients living in difficult situations.

Ok I think I understand. He doesn’t live with anyone else, it’s just him, in a property where he owns part and rents the rest from the HA.

Are you concerned about his wellbeing or his being allowed to continue living in the property? What’s your relationship to this person and how involved are you - or willing to be?

Depending on who the person is, I’d clear out as much as you can. We had this with a family friend and when they were in hospital their relative did as much as they could and it was just done and dusted. It wasn’t stripped bare or anything but enough to make it safe.

It depends on the lease arrangements with the housing association who owns the retained equity. The standard shared ownership leases are fairly hands off (as most leaseholds are) - it being a financial arrangement not a management arrangement (except communal areas). If the homeowner goes into arrears for rent or mortgage then they will step in. Outside the 10 year repair period it is the homeowner who is responsible.

Do you mean the fall was due to hoarding? Or the delay in finding them was caused by hoarding? Sorry, I can't tell from how you've written it.

What is the ostensible reason for keeping all the old papers?

Does your relative have unrestricted access to a bathroom and kitchen?

I only know about rented properties (and the possibility of eviction due to creating fire hazard for adjoining homes), but the thing I do know is hoarders. They will lie, they will cry, they will shout and become violent and, no matter what else, they will be determined to protect The Stuff. But not turn on heating to prevent it going mouldy or rusty. And if they think for one second that anything has been taken, they will go ballistic and double the hoard as quickly as possible.

You have to step away and just keep the contact details of a few clearance and skip companies to put against any estate at whatever point in future that becomes possible.

Does he have mental capacity to make decisions about where and how he lives?

if not (and thus specific decision needs to have been formally assessed), does anyone have power of attorney for health and welfare? If so, they become the decision makers and if not the team looking after him do

There will be absolutely no change to the hoarding and he will get rid of absolutely nothing. I say that with complete conviction as a daughter and granddaughter of hoarders.

I’m with the person above who suggests going in there and getting rid of as many newspapers as possible while they’re not around