AIBU to step back if my elderly MIL refuses basic hygiene?

This is a very common problem
and tbh you can talk to her till your bluer in the face it won’t change

take the reins and manage it rather than trying to change it
sounds like the chair is the main problem get your husband to throw it out

Btw you sound amazing. Well done for stepping up. If you can persuade her to get carers in, I bet your name becomes the go to phrase to get anything done. "Well, Ive been told by X that you have to have a wash today, so if you won't, that's fine but I'll have to give her a call and tell her I can't do my job today". A united front can work wonderfully. It's a very difficult situation for you so you have my sympathies.

I agree with this. I feel that (and I truly don’t mean this in a patronising way) your spirited MIL is no different from a spirited child.

You can love them by doing something that is needed to nurture and protect them even if is doing something they don’t want to.

i genuinely feel sorry that her daughter and son can’t step up and do what is needed to properly look after her at this stage. No different from leaving a toddler in a used nappy even if they scream or run away from you when it’s time to change it.

Sending you love OP. You clearly have enough on your plate with your son and they should be picking this up.

As a slightly different point to the smell, be aware that as it's a private rental then there will likely be an issue when the first inspection takes place.
Is the chair sitting on a carpeted floor and so urine slowly seeping into that? I honestly think I'd have DH removed it to the tip as you said she's bought another.

I work in care at the moment, OP and I completely recognise this situation, so youre not alone! For many of our clients , it is the harsh words from family/drs/social care, that they will not be allowed to live independently if they do not meet certain standards that kick starts their acceptance of carers or support. A list of non negotiables such as washing, changing pads, changing bedding etc. Don't get me wrong, those same clients can refuse to eat, refuse to wash, refuse to have pads changed but generally over the course of the visit, can be persuaded to do something. Sometimes it takes time for them to get into a routine with a specific carer too (I know when I do emergency cover, some clients refuse anything from me but are absolutely fine with the normal carer) but once they know wednesday morning is shower day, they generally accept it. Unfortunately the only way I have managed to get one lady's house smelling cleaner is insisting on her bedding (also on a chair) being removed and washed daily, even if it's not soiled, as the chair is too far gone. It has made a huge difference.

You have my sympathy and you could step back. Age uk online shop has an array of useful things. No. 1 in my book is the commode liner. Plus no rinse shower caps, shampoo and body wash. if course she actually have to use them but might be less traumatic and agreeable than showering.

You are just referring a vulnerable adult for safeguarding and either social services determines she is a vulnerable adult who needs safeguarding or she isn’t but you can still refer. If she is determined to lack capacity due to her vulnerability they will still have to step in but that threshold is very high.

Start with GP and ask for occupational health to visit. Having just moved this is normal at her age.
Then step away.

Not your problem. Step back and let DH deal with his mother.

if you go down this route I would buy her a new chair and just take the old one to the tip, don’t let her talk you out of it. “No mum it needs to go it’s ruined.” As for the sister you should of called adult social services when she lived there, this is really bad neglect. Your MIL is likely embarrassed and has given up on the hygiene front from years of neglect and no help off the daughter.

This
Remember the elderly can be very fruggle so why not buy a few basic products & pop them in the bathroom.
Dont be arguing with someone 90.
Who evers problem it is get some help with her able to make decisions with that help.

Op your DH needs to sit her down and be honest “mum Luke is going through cancer treatment an infection could kill him, we won’t be able to visit until you start taking care of yourself. You need a new chair it’s ruined we can smell urine mum, either accept the help of us or off carers and a cleaner or accept we cannot visit until Luke gets the all clear.” as for you, not your circus not your monkeys this is DH problem. Hope your sons cancer treatment goes well.

This is 100% a DH issue. He needs to insist the soiled furniture etc is thrown out and arrange for carers etc to come in daily for personal care. The flat needs professionally cleaned, all items destroyed or cleaned etc.

her children have let her down alllowing her to live like this in the previous property. I don’t understand why DH didn’t step in ahead of the move and ensure nothing dirty was transferred.

the MIL is living without dignity, so her feelings on it need to be ignored as its dangerous for her health.

Perhaps show DH this thread?

I assume she is in cognitive decline so not totally aware of her personal hygiene.

When DM started to show cognitive issues we got someone in who DM thinks is a cleaner but actually provides some care support too. It helps kick start the process of building up care support and them getting used to someone not related to them coming into the home and doing things for them

You can raise a safeguarding concern with Adult Social care in the sense she is not taking care of herself. My mum didnt want help and refused for a long time so I understand.

Has your MIL got Power of Attorney in place? As this is essential as she gets older and needs more support.

Tell your husband to go collect the chair and take it to the tip along with anything else like that. It’s not like she’s going to go there and get it back. Put some toiletries in the shower room. You know you tried then.

Your priority has to be your son. If that means avoiding her very dirty environment then that's what has to happen. She can absolutely call the shots in terms of how she lives, but not consequence free. In this case one consequence may be your involvement. I'd tell her that unfortunately DS's diagnosis means you both need an extra clean house and hygiene routine. It'll require x,y and z and you are happy to organise it, but it's a non-negotiable in terms of DS's safety. Angle it that way so it's about his needs and not shaming her. Then the ball is in her court.

Can you get a cleaner to do a deep clean? Get her out of her home while they do it, get an upholstery cleaning company to deep clean her chair. Would she have a shower at yours? Offer to help her in & out if she needs it. Alternatively buy some of those large body wipes they use in hospital, you can warm them in the microwave, offer to take her to the hairdressers for a wash & set. Do her clothes ever get washed? Could you gradually go through her wardrobe & wash all her clothes. Is she eating properly? Who cooks her meals?

zacsGranny
She has agreed to having a cleaner, but won't accept that a cleaner can't do their job if she covers everything in dirty (smelly) clutter
She has agreed to buy a new chair but won't get rid of the old smelly one

Op on mn there’s a lot about cleaners who will only clean but not tidy but in real life you look for someone who can do both. A lot of people have reasons they can’t tidy a lot and I heard a segment on the radio debunking that cleaners won’t do anything to help people including decluttering. You’re doing amazing but your dh and his sister need to start stepping in more, you’ve enough on your plate x

This. It is time for him to be become good - or at least competent - at speaking to her.

I would insist that DH deals with it if my MIL ends up like this.

Sometimes people are more receptive to a stranger about these things, plus a uniform or title gives a bit of authority. And medical/similar people are used to presenting things in a different way. But once a chair is soiled like that it just needs to be thrown away.

Maybe the GP practice nurse could have a word? The awful smelly chair just needs to go to the tip and be incinerated and her son needs to insist that this happens.

Exactly she’s 92. Physically it sounds impossible to do it all on her own. Give her a break

If she is more comfortable sleeping propped up this suggests a potential heart/lung issues and
should be discussed with the GP.

Is she afraid of falling in the shower? A referal to the falls clinic could be helpful.

What did her hygiene used to be like. Here current situation seems extreme and SIL’s hygiene sounds questionable so I’m just wondering was her orginal base level of hygiene was like.

Hi, it was @PrincessofWills saying you were being cruel, not the poster you tagged.

So somehow her daughter is useless and her son (your husband) is ‘not very good at speaking to her’. Your MIL seems to think everything is okay but it clearly isn’t. My advice is to tell your son to simply not go around there to minimise any risk to himself (I’m really sorry to hear about his illness). Him staying safe is the most important thing. When she has a GP, speak to someone there and be brutally honest about it all then leave it to them. Once she is on their radar, she can accept or refuse what they recommend but that is all you can do. If she and both of her children are not capable or willing to do anything then any effort you will put in will be wasted. As long as you tell the GP and they visit or arrange someone to visit, that’s it.

It’ll be horrible to watch, but if people want to live like that there’s nothing you can do unfortunately.