Care homes make me think people never die

Doesn’t matter if your 25 or 95 it’s all about quality

my dads last years were pitiful I used to think if he could see himself he’d be horrified

thankful we’re told bluntly do you want us to pump him full of antibiotics chances are he would rally round but never improve
we choose not to continue treatment and he passed
it absolutely was the best thing for him

I don't think it's bad to think of that as a "good" death. One of my grandfathers lived life to the full right up to the moment he died, his heart stopped suddenly and he fell down dead walking his beloved dog. It was a terrible shock to us as (although he was in his 80s) he was so full of life and energy. The last time I had seen him he had set up a treasure hunt around his garden for the great grandchildren and climbed up a tree with my son to help him find a clue!

I can remember talking to the undertaker and him saying "you won't see it this way yet but that was a wonderful way to go" and I thought how odd and tactless. But I totally get it now and hope I make my exit similarly.

Exactly.

My sister who is 67 has been caring for her mother in law 90 at home to the detriment of her own health. All other relatives seem uninterested. It usually falls to women.

The proposed bill was for people with a terminal illness and full capacity so wouldn't be able to be used with dementia as its not deemed terminal.

But I do remember some residents at my grandma's care home who seemed to have been there for years on end.

How would you know? If your grandma was only there for eighteen months, did you continue to go there after she died? What did you do, hang around outside watching for undertakers?

What, that you'd just sit down and not get up one day?

No, doesn't happen like that. It's a gradual incremental creep, mostly. Imperceptible when it starts, but after years there will be gradually fewer things you can do, and eventually both your home and you will be in poor condition and your loved ones in despair. Refusing help won't prevent you from needing it.

OP I'm not sure what your point is in starting this thread. What would you rather have, some kind of Logan's Run set-up? We're all going to die, mostly in ways we can't control, regardless of how many weights we lift. Unlike animals, people don't own each other, we don't buy our parents from pet shops. All we can do is support those who can no longer care for themselves. And yes that means losing our squeamishness and disgust about failing bodies and recognising that the alternative ie murder is much worse.

Yes i think this is right. I'll try and find the source but I'm sure i read somewhere that the average period of time in a care home from admission to death is something like 8-9 months.

Of my grandparents, both grandfathers died suddenly while still living independent lives. One grandmother moved to a care home mainly because of physical difficulties but rapidly developed dementia. I think she lasted another 4 years. Other grandmother moved to sheltered accommodation once widowed, then care home once struggling physically, I think she lasted about another 18 months. FIL was about the same, quite a rapid decline after being diagnosed with Alzheimers. MIL died suddenly after a short illness, no care home.

But I do remember some residents at my grandma's care home who seemed to have been there for years on end. One lady was joined there by her own son who was also elderly and infirm by then. Maybe those people are easier to notice/remember?

I definitely don't want to end my days in a care home and would rather die of a heart attack while drunkenly dancing La Macarena too wildly.

However, I love life so can understand why people cling onto to it. One of my neighbours is 102 and after a stroke at 99 is no longer physically active. Mentally she is still all there, although she tires easily, she told me she has learned to love the stillness and opening her window and listening to the birds.

I guess that one has to make adjustments but it is still living and you can still find joy in things (happy memories, remembering loved ones, etc).

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I was quite firm with my DM’s care home that by a certain age (and stage of dementia) there should be no hospital unless absolutely necessary (e.g. in the case of a 2nd broken hip) and certainly no ‘striving to keep alive’.

They agreed absolutely.

AFAIK the CH usually had a waiting list.

From all I’ve ever read or heard, it’s often the relatives who want Mum or Dad kept going for as long as humanly possible - ‘I can’t bear to let Mum go!’ - regardless of the quality of life - when the medics may well think that letting Nature take its course, with palliative care, might well be kinder.

Nurses study something called “The Determinants of Well-Aging”. These things include things like good nutrition, physical fitness, exercise, etc, but also strong social connections and personal interests like hobbies, etc. I think a lot of these really elderly people might be the exceptions to the rule. I’m pretty sure most of them don’t have strong social connections, their food is wretched and they are not really encouraged to exercise. must be a miserable life. My grandmother used to call those places “God’s Waiting Room”. She did not want to be hanging out all day with old people and she didn’t want to be fed “old people food”. She wanted to live to be 100 so she could tell the local news that she’d been smoking for over 80 years. She made it to 96 living with my family.

Yes, DH has written an advance directive and I intend to as well.
DS has been charged with seeing that DH’s wishes are carried out. (No lifesaving measures as the end approaches etc eapecially if dementia is present) and has agreed. He will do that for me too.
It’s a comforting thing to have in place.

I have been through this with both parents, my mum 2.5 years in a care home with Alzheimer’s and my Dad 11 years with Huntingtons, both died relatively young. Visiting Mum was traumatic, she screamed and was very distressed, had no idea where she was and cried for her Mum and Dad. My Dad was relatively more aware but physically disabled and had no insight into his condition and couldn’t communicate. It was horrendous to witness to the two people I loved most in the world. I lost them within a week of each other, it was the saddest outcome and the best outcome for all of us. I’ve had bereavement counselling and have PTSD. I’m weight training (now I have time to do it) but I can’t outrun my genetics. I hope as a society we can start valuing quality of life over quantity of living years, but thanks to some disability activists holding down jobs in the media and para Olympic athletes we are not able to see people who are being actively harmed by being kept alive in states of extreme pain and distress way beyond when they should be, because it is making a small number of care home owners a lot of money at the expense of many families.

When my time comes and I know im declining, and need assistance.
Im of to Switzerland and die with what dignity i have left.

As other posters have said care homes and hospitals will do absolutely anything to keep someone alive regardless of their quality of life. They fail to ask the question whether something should be treated simply because a treatment exists. I value quality of life over quantity and although I don’t consider myself elderly I’d already refuse treatment for many illnesses. What I’d advise people to do
is write an advance directive whilst you can.

Gosh, so sorry for your loss and pleased your Mum was able to exercise some control over the situation, at least 💐

My aunt’s mother-in-law came to live with her and husband when she was elderly. She wasn’t particularly ill. She was just too old to be at home on her own.

They had a routine on a Sunday where they would have their roast dinner and then she would go up to her bedroom where she’d sit in her wing back armchair and watch Emmerdale on the TV. My aunt would go up at the time she knew Emmerdale was finishing with a cup of tea and a sticky bun.

One Sunday, my aunt went up with the tea and the bun and she was dead. She’d been perfectly fine at lunch, gone up sat in her chair and just died sat there in front of her favourite tv programme in her slippers. The credits were still rolling on the tv.

It was a shock for my aunt and uncle but an absolute blessing for her.

We've not had any family members in care homes. My DGM died of a stroke while going upstairs to bed at 98 after a half mile plus uphill walk back from the local working mens club, where she had her usual few Saturday night whiskies. I'd like a similar end.

I'm very afraid of being one of those old, old people who can't die.There is notable longevity on both sides of my family.

My grandma died at 90. She still lived at home and we would take it in turns to go and visit her, take her out, batch cook for her freezer etc but she had been ready to die for about 5 years as her health startd to fail her.

She used to say, "When he comes for me now, I'll be happy to go."

She retired at 60 and spent her retirement travelling, involved with the church and community events etc. She had a lot of friends and was a wonderful grandma/great grandma.

She would have hated to go into a home and, when she had a fatal heart attack, I was called into the hospital and the staff said they'd tried to resuscitate her but only once because her body was too frail to take it.

I told them I was pleased they'd stopped because 'she wouldn't have thanked them'. They seemed shocked to hear it bit it was true.

Her quality of life had diminished amd she didn't want to.he an old lady sitting in chair staring at the TV all day. That would have been a fate worse than death for her.

The age of really generous pensions and ludicrous property prices seems to be coming slowly to, if not an end, at least diminishing. Over the next 20 years or so more and more people in this position will not be self funding so the care companies won't be so profitable (or the care homes will get much much worse in terms of staffing levels etc) because local authorities just won't be able to provide the same profit opportunities for the private equity vultures.who are profiting so much from all this.

Public health really needs to get a grip on shortening the gap between the end of the healthy life span and death. First by extending healthy life apan. But second....the solution we cannot name... allowing the suffering to come to a timely, comfortable and dignifies end.

How to enable that though? Even if it eventually comes in, most of these situations are inappropriate for assisted dying as competence has long gone.

However there surely comes a point where care can transition to a phase prioritising comfort and dignity can be - as a decision signalled in advance by the elderly person and endorsed at the time by key loved ones and care professionals together? And sooner and more openly than appears to happen now.

The fact that some posters on this board feel a relatives death eas hastened while others feel it was delayed unethically is very worrying. There should be transparent well understood procedures on this that we can all understand in advance of them needing to be begun..The secrecy and suspicion is causing huge suffering to relatives as well as preventing them confidently ensuring their loved ones get the help of whatever kin d their loved ones need.

I'm 100% for assisted dying. My DM was diagnosed with AML, aggressive form of leukemia. After 3 months of brutal chemotherapy they sent mum home and put her on end of life care taking12 different tablets a day including vitamins and chemo tablets. After 2 weeks of being bed bound she told us she'd stopped taking her medication as she couldn't take it any more. 6 days later she passed in her sleep. It just shows that it was a cocktail of medication keeping her alive. I'm glad she was able to make her own decision.

I have a slightly different take on it. My late DM lived with Alzheimers for around 10 years before she died, and luckily for most of that time was in a good care home.
She was happy there, well fed and otherwise healthy, sociable and surrounded by good people.
She died after a short bout of pneumonia just before her 90th birthday.
It was worse for the family, especially at first when she began to forget us and before she went into the home. But once in there she forgot her previous life when she was anxious and scared at home.
She was always so pleased to see us and she’d say to me ‘We’ve been friends for a long time, haven’t we?’
Yes, Mum, I would reply.