Care homes make me think people never die

There you have it, fear of complaints or litigation. I dealt with over zealous relatives too and I used to despair. Some didn't even want painkillers to be administered in case it made the elderly person too drowsy to eat their slop. Many people can't face death and their selfish demands are ensuring their relatives suffer. The message needs to get out that imposing this harsh existence on someone is tantamount to cruelty. People need to deal with their immaturity.

It's so interesting to read the majority of people on this thread seem to be against life prolonging interventions where quality of life is no longer preserved.

My experience working in healthcare both in secondary and primary care is quite the opposite, a lot of families want their elderly frail loved one kept going at all costs, obsessing over their blood pressure/wanting antibiotics on a never ending loop etc etc and when something new goes wrong looking for another fix.
What we then end up with is people with little quality of life, navigating mountains of medication (polypharmacy bringing it's own issues) and only going out for medical appointments.
I wouldn't want it for myself or someone I love.

Better anticipatory care planning and more openness around the fact death is inevitable and another and another pill isn't going to stop it coming to all of us would be helpful.

I've seen it in my own family. My grandma was well and independent till a stroke at age 96, after which she needed care- we're a large family so she was looked after at home by us all on a rota to avoid a care home.
When she passed away 2 years later after a second stroke I still had relatives balk and object when the consultant suggested a DNR was appropriate. I had to talk to them about the reality of attempting resus on someone in her condition and the fact it was more than likely to fail anyway so she'd have a traumatic painful end rather than slipping away peacefully which she was more than ready to do.

Healthcare workers are in a no win position as you can't write someone off just because they're old and/or disabled so often these measures are taken at least part because of fear of complaints or litigation when the real compassionate thing to do would be to facilitate a dignified death.

But it is a wonderful way to go , it’s just q shock to the living relatives and for that I’m truly sorry 😔.

Christ reading all these replies I should be utterly depressed as I spend my work life inspecting care homes!
There's a difference between residential and nursing and also, unfortunately due to need, we see residential homes caring for people with far higher needs than they used to.
I see some really good care, excellent in fact and thankfully not many poor ones. Sometimes it's sad when I see people at end stage dementia being nursed in bed, but what is the other option.

"Before", there were far fewer elderly people at all. They just didn't live much past retirement and most familial caring was short term. It's not feasible to have ten/fifteen years familial caring especially now that retirement age is close to 70. That previous model now doesn't apply.

We're still at the point of finding our feet re large scale elderly care. This is the first generation where people have lived so long, and they are doing so after decades of falling birthrates.

We've never had such demographics previously and we won't again - although the birthrate is still falling, so we'll continue to skew upwards in terms of average population age (now over 40), the generation currently in elderly years is the most populous we've had in the UK. Subsequent generations are smaller so there won't be such an imbalance. No point panicking now and rushing through some half baked policy on how to manage the "problem", better to think long term about how we structure a society that properly takes account of life at either end of the employment cycle.

They still need an Advance Directive. Some doctors who lack the wit or wisdom (and who are covering their arses) will push for active treatment regardless of what relatives want, even with an LPA for health. Things went mad after Shipman and now almost every elderly person's death is regarded as a suspicious disaster to be avoided at all costs.

Well, you can wish but it may not come as you hoped. My mum hoped to just die in her sleep but when she was 86 she fell and broke her hip.

She was already widowed for 17 years then, she never drove so walked everywhere, each day unless the weather was truely awful.

She is now in a care home as she is not able to gain full mobiliy and there was no way her rental flat could have been adjusted and no carer/assisted living would have be possible.

With stubborness, iron will and plenty of physio she got out of the wheelchair and manages 80% with a rollator walker. She may get the odd cold but otherwise is healthy as a horse.

She is now 88 and I am sure she can go for several more years. She actually looks and behaves younger and while she would have hoped for a different life she adjusted, keeps sharp with newspapers and TV, reads complex books, does crosswords.

Are there cases in her care home like you descriped - yes but some for some people it is a necessity and no exercise and weightlifting can help if you break a bone with 86.

I think semi-assisted living facilities such as retirement apartment complexes deserve a mention as well. My grandmother lived in one for nearly 10 years. She had a nurse check up on her twice a day but she lived independently.

There was the option of a restaurant but she mostly cooked for herself and lived independently.
Her little apartment - one large room, one separate kitchen and a shower / loo - was also built with lots of adaptive aids (especially the loo and shower). She even had her own tiny flower garden with pots etc.

She had a good life there.

The amount of support she received also meant that she didn’t need to spend more than the last 1.5 years in a care home (when her dementia had advanced to a state where she needed a closed facility).

My gran lasted years in a care home. For at least the last 5 years she just wanted to die. Even the doctor knew this but there was nothing wrong with her. She eventually just used to sit in a chair all day not reading, not watching TV just sitting. Her fingers ended up fusing and she had no conversation.
She was on bed care the last 2 years and sad as it was when she died it was actually a relief in some ways. You wouldn't have let an animal suffer the way she did 😢
My granddad on the other hand who was still living at home,was ill one morning and died before lunchtime. That was also sad but after seeing the way my gran suffered it was a much better way to go.

I hope I go fast, I’m hoping for a heart attack or stroke in mid - late 80’s with an amazing life until that point, but I’m quite aware we don’t get what we wish for often . My mil just failed to wake up one morning in her own bed though was riddled with arthritis and other mobility issues though has full capacity. Not to wake up is definitely the way to go, shocking for the family on the day but even 4 weeks out at the funeral they were so at peace and pleased that her end was so good, you can’t hope for anything more .

That not harsh, I understand. I remember feeling exactly the same about my auntie who seemed to live forever with vascular dementia in a care home. She was at least mobile but her death was a relief for all imo.

Our parents have given us power of attorney over them - they have made it clear that if they have dementia they do not want any attempts to prolong their lives medically.

Perhaps you don't remember that just living was much more physical, most jobs were much less sedentary and more physical, walking to do the shopping and carrying it home, clothes washing (primitive washing machines) and cleaning, few household gadgets, growing your own vegetables. Going to the gym seemed like a ridiculous waste of time and money when you were already exhausted after a hard days work and chores.

Physical fitness isn’t much help if you get dementia.

I agree. My grandma isn’t in a home but she lives with a relative but she’s been in a bed for about 6 years. She’s in her 90s. She has no quality of life and neither does the relative caring for her. I don’t have the best relationship with her so I sound quite harsh when I say this but I genuinely believe it would be better for her if she were to die now.

I worked in care homes for a long time and they do indeed force people to remain alive until their last breath is wrung out of them. It's utterly dismal and very depressing. They're given endless courses of antibiotics to deal with endless chest infections and uti's. They're fed liquidised food/thickened fluids when they can't chew anymore to avoid choking and aspiration. Spending their time stuck in front of a blaring TV with media slop and loud, obnoxious people on what passes for TV programmes now. If they're really unlucky, Magic fm might be on really loud at the same time for the benefit of the care assistants. Pain relief is under prescribed and they'll only get it if the nurse can be bothered to administer it or knows how to conduct the drugs round correctly. Morphine, if it's prescribed, needs two to check out and sign for, so some staff will only give paracetamol to save themselves the work. So many sad and horrible stories I have.

I have an Advance Directive prohibiting artificial feeding, repeated courses of antibiotics and active treatment in the event of collapse, major accident, terminal illness or dementia. I still have nightmares about working in the care homes and I've been out for seven years.

Honestly, by the time some of us get to old age we'll be lucky if state funded care homes exist.

I agree. In my youth I worked in a few and I found them quite depressing, difficult places.

As a society we really need to start letting older people die with dignity rather than keeping them going for years with no quality of life, often confused and frightened.

I suspect its because someone, somewhere is making money from the present situation eg drug companies, care homes etc.

I'm not sure what the answer is because the flip side is being accused of wanting to kill people/play God etc and I can see how some people would exploit withdrawal of care.

Totally totally agree.

I work in a hospital and frequently see older people being wheeled up and down the corridors like the living dead.

It absolutely changed the way I live my life. I lift weights 3 x a week. I get my cardio in. But most importantly I have an advanced directive which clearly lays out my wishes.

It is usually the family pushing for treatment for granny who they insist was “fine” last week.

Ill take a quick death 10 years earlier rather than wasting away in a bed for the sake of “life at all costs”

Once I get to the stage when it is deemed that I can "no longer manage" or get a diagnosis of Alzheimers/dementia then that will be the day I stop taking my heart meds and damn the consequences. I'd rather be dead than go into a care home.

I live in a country with voluntary assisted dying and an article has just come out that many aged care facilities are blocking access to VAD provision. Some of the facilities are religious and others just seem to prioritise the income over their residents' wishes.

After caring for my mother for the last 8 years, who is now in the advanced stages of Alzheimer's (she also has breast cancer, heart disease, osteoporosis and fractured her next last summer) and having looked around care homes recently we are trying our utmost to keep her at home, not because we are after her money (it's costing £4k per month for carers coming in every day) but care homes are businesses at the end of the day and elderly people are their bread and butter so it's in their best interest to keep them alive regardless. Care homes are bloody depressing places imo, people half dead being kept alive for who's benefit?

I couldn't bare for mum to be keep alive like that. I wish for her to go peacefully at home and if I'm honest, the sooner the better because she has suffered for far too long now, it's heartbreaking to watch day in day out yet her body wants to live for some reason.

I 100% agree OP. Sadly my husband is of the mind that he wants to keep his parents and probably me if he can going as long as possible. It was the same for his grandparents. I find it unbearably depressing to think about. As it is my ILs are only in their 70s and just sit there staring at the TV all day.

my FIL (Alzheimer's) lasted for 6 years, he eventually died of leukaemia & my grandmother (vascular dementia) just a couple of days short of 10 years. She was 98 when she died. The treatment they got - multiple hospitalisations for chest infections, UTIs, investigation of falls & "taking a turn" etc - was obscene imo. They were both had bucket loads of daily medications. The pressure for this did not come from relatives - we, including MIL & my parents - were horrified, there were multiple discussions between us, the staff & medics but it didn't make any difference to staff actions.

Oh and neither were slim - both overweight at least since middle aged, both sedentary & both moderate/heavy drinkers. Neither smoked

Very similar to my recent experience. It's horrible to lose someone with no warning but amazing to think they died still enjoying life to the full and with no fear and suffering