Care homes make me think people never die

That was my thought, but I don't want to be responsible for blowing up the neighbours if I leave the gas on.

I stand corrected. Most of my patients only go into care homes when they’ve got no choice, as they’re not safe at home.

just read the OP of the OP!

I cared for my parents and then my late husband. No children of my own and no siblings, so no one to advocate for me.

I'm trying to build up muscle etc to stay independent for as long as possible. The doctor who saw me about my genetic knee problem 2 yrs ago told me he wouldn't even consider replacing my knees for at least another 10 years (at which point I'll be over 74).

I was given a list of things that I've to avoid: running, swimming breast stroke, walking up and down slopes [in Scotland?], cycling...

I've taken the view that I'd better use the years that I have now to live and to build up muscle, even if it means breaking his rules. What's the point in living a sedentary life style now, getting fatter and weaker and then get replacement knees when it's too late?

I might as well do what I can now, before I land in a home. (Mum lived to 90; Dad to 86 in spite of the family heart trouble. I now realise that I probably inherited the knee trouble from him.)

It used to be quite a thing for women who were widowed to move into a care home because they 'couldn't manage alone', in other words they'd had a man telling them what to do all their lives. What would happen would be they'd then live for another 30 years because they were perfectly healthy. I think you get this less now, but yes: we as a species have managed to prolong life but without maintaining the quality of that life for the final couple of decades.

I’m a social worker. people who are self funding are putting themselves in care homes left right and centre. Family pressure, loneliness, health professionals telling them they need it. Then 2/3 years later they come to social care, their house has sold, they’ve used the money and they’re barely eligible. But what do you do? Put them on the housing register? Sometimes. But by then they’ve become dependent on the care and most of them end up staying there permanently at the cost of social care

@TapestryNeedle people don’t end up in care homes if they’re able to wash, dress and feed themselves safely. Unless they’re lonely and they want to live in a care home.

In general, care home residents were not able to look after themselves safely, hence the move.

Yes, I do need to double check if they have one

My parents worst nightmare was ending up
in a care home. Almost entirely because the thought of paying for their care was anathema to them.

They were extremely lucky in that they both enjoyed great health until they were in their 90s and somehow both managed to die in their sleep. I realise how unusual this is. We’re extremely thankful.

however, remember the many other threads about, between few :

-a woman telling a story how her 88 year old father has left with 3 teeth and the care home was not brushing them enough, according to her
-a woman whose father had unsuccessful hip replacement and was out of mental capacity but she insisted that he needed a second such operation because according to her he might recover this time and at least walk with a walking frame, despite the social workers opposing this decision

this thread and the ones I mentioned show that you can never please the general public.

I would rather live at home, dementia, naked out in the street at 2am, leaving the gas on and falling constantly then go in to a care home. Might make a living will at some point. They’re necessary for some people but others treat them like it’s a next step to getting old

They never die, OP.

Do you think children should have the decision, if they dont have power of attorney, to decide when their parent should no longer be treated?

@Dontcallmescarface and @OldJohn I think you're both rather naive. People often have a change of heart and cling on until literally "grim death". If you've got a diagnosis of Alzheimer's how will you be of sound mind and able to make a choice? Have you cared for an elderly relative for a sustained period?

Yes, IMO actively trying to prolong the life of anyone already very elderly, with any condition such as dementia, or who otherwise has a very poor quality of life, is tantamount to abuse or even cruelty.

How long someone lives is one of the mysteries of life. Not sure can you draw a long thread with comments on it but yes, I too cannot imagine ever going to a care home. I will be more than happy, being in my own bed, left in peace....why these old people need to be in a care home if they manage getting up, dressing and participating in crafts? Just bloody stay home and enjoy life...if you are paralysed or in dementia, this is something entirely different

We need a laughing emoji.

🤣😂😄😆

Actually op ...your have voiced something I'd also thought
My mum ( we did not have a normal mother / daughter relationship) is in a nursing home ,and this is the third care home I've had to move her to .
She's now been in care home for 5 years
Which has totally shocked me
I can't believe she's still here
I thought people went in them to die ,but clearly not
Her home is the best in the area , because I moved her from ones I wasn't 100% happy with ..and this current one is superb,and she is so well looked after ,by amazing staff ,that must be why she's still here

@BerryTwister very well put.

I have felt the same! A SiL’s father died instantly of a heart attack, while her Dm had a massive fatal stroke while eating her breakfast,

Whereas my parents - one with drawn out cancer, the other with even longer drawn out dementia.

Plus there was a colleague whose very elderly and habitually unwell mother died very suddenly. She knew what I’d been through, or was still going through, with DPs plus FiL, so I wasn’t afraid to tell her that my first thought had been ‘lucky you’.

She wasn’t in the least offended - she admitted that one of her first reactions (apart from the shock) had been of relief.

This thread is sort of mad, I mean it seems to tap into the recent Assisted Dying controversy. I am against the Bill because of what I saw my mother go through in Surrey care homes; it seems to be a way of getting euthanasia on the sly - but it's clear other posters' views and experiences are at utter variance with mine and I am not unsympathetic at all.

It seems there is no joined-up thinking about what is going on. My attitude is, fine, if you see no value in your parent's life, if they are just burning up the family fortune and they show no glimmer of interest, happiness or even contentment in day-to-day life and haven't for years, and the crucial thing being if they are in real pain with no hope of alleviating it, ffs let them go, I mean nowhere in Surrey would anyone let them linger on, it seems to be euthanasia county here.

Contrast with our experience of Mum with advanced Parkinson's - my sister and I had to take it turns to go in daily to give her drink because the care home basically refused to do so - but didn't ever make it clear why, I had to figure that out. It was, okay, just let us do it then, while we pay a grand a week to the care home and we're not allowed to leave. The machinations they went through.

@Anoninsomniac it’s not financially motivated. It’s often fear of litigation.

I’ve been a doctor for 35 years and I’ve seen a massive change in treatment of elderly people, motivated by a variety of factors.

Firstly, medical technology has advanced hugely, so conditions that were inevitably fatal can now be treated. And if you can do something, it’s hard to justify not doing it.

Secondly, NICE and government guidelines/targets have pushed GPs to address risk factors aggressively, regardless of age. So we have 95 year olds being given medication for their slightly high cholesterol etc.

Thirdly, as medical technology has advanced, so public expectation has changed. Everyone expects to live for ever now. People assume that everything is treatable, and should be treated. I see patients well into their 80s, baffled that nothing can be done for their age-related symptoms.

Fourthly, fear of litigation is huge. I’m constantly fearful of being sued. We end up in ridiculous situations in which an elderly patient is very ill. The doctors feel treatment should be withdrawn, but they can’t insist on that, because they’d be accused of murder. The family feel obliged to insist on all active treatment, otherwise they feel guilty, even if they secretly agree with the doctors. No one is prepared to “pull the plug” as it were, so the poor patient ends up living in continued pain and confusion for months. Even Respect forms (what used to be DNAR forms) are overridden by stressed relatives.

I’ve often visited care homes and dread ending up in one.

Nationally, I seem to remember the stats on care home lifespan is an average of about 2 years. Probably slightly more in a care home, slightly less in a nursing home.

I'm sure if you travelled back in time 20 years, and asked the current folk in them what they wanted their end of life to look like, not a single one would want where they currently are. Who would? No one wants to be a mouth-gawping husk in a chair.

As for care homes chasing for medication etc... There's two ways to look at it. The cynical answer is money. A living body in a bed is one that's paying the fees and therefore wages. An empty room because the resident has died means no money.
Secondly, they don't want any kick-back. "My mum could have been saved if you'd got her antibiotics! I'm suing you!" It happens.

My grandma had dementia and spent her final 3 years in a specialist care home. Physically she was in good nick, so could still get around. Ultimately it was an accidental fall when out on a walk that finished her off. She broke her pelvis, kept forgetting she needed to lie still in bed, kept causing herself pain as a result, got a UTI, and ultimately it was the pain and distress, plus the UTI that killed her.

My cousins other grandpa is currently in a care home and it's been the making of him. Prior to admission, his T2 diabetes was wildly out of control, he wasn't eating properly, and his personal hygiene was shot to pieces, he was dirty and smelly.
3 years on, he's a changed man. His diabetes is under control, he's clean and smartly dressed, and actually looks like he's enjoying life again.

In the event that I become physically or mentally incapacitated and lose my quality of life I would want to explicitly forbid that I be subjected to life preserving measures or medications. I would prefer the option of a dignified peaceful passing that doesnt traumatise my family or force them to watch me wither away in a care environment. Let me go peacefully and painlessly without suffering.

This is why the nhs is in a dreadful state, it seems we keep people alive by pumping them full of medicine at great cost for year after year of existing.
Both my grandparents were reasonably health then died quickly after a very short illness. My parents in the other hand were kept alive, my mum with dementia which was dreadful.
Im in my 60’s now and am already dreading being kept alive with no quality of life.