Care home contract says I’m liable to pay fees

The LA I work for would look back into the records of anyone who did this. Some people are under the impression that the LA only looks at the last 7 years but they are muddling it up with IHT. LAs can - and do - look back over many, many years to ensure someone hasn't carried out a deprivation of assets.

They get done for what is called ‘deprivation of assets’ and the LA will refuse to pay for their care for them

I have POA for my mum, but would expect to sign a contract between her and the care home on her behalf as POA, and as I understand my role as POA is to ensure that her fees are paid but I’m not required to personally be liable for paying the fees.

This makes sense but LAs can ask for a top-up from a relative if the client's funds run out and the cost of the home is greater than the LA ceiling amount. This is the legal situation (via AI):

A Local Authority (LA) in the UK can only ask for "top-up" fees from relatives (a third-party top-up) under specific circumstances, as mandated by the Care Act 2014 and accompanying statutory guidance. These payments are meant to be voluntary contributions to secure a more expensive care home than the council would normally fund, not to fill gaps in the council's own funding obligations. 1, 2, 3]
Circumstances for Requesting Top-Ups
An LA can request a top-up from relatives if:

• The Resident Chooses a Costlier Home: The resident has chosen a specific care home that costs more than the amount the LA has set as their "personal budget" to meet their assessed needs.
• There is a Cheaper Alternative: The LA has offered at least one suitable care home that meets the resident's needs within their standard budget rate, but the resident prefers a more expensive option.
• The Third Party is Willing and Able: The relative (third party) has agreed to make the payment and the LA is satisfied they have the financial means to do so for the long term.
• Existing Care Costs Increase: If the resident is already in a home, and the provider increases its fees above the rate the council is willing to pay. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

• Must be Voluntary: Top-ups should never be forced or pressured; they are purely voluntary, and you can refuse to pay.
• Must be a Genuine Choice: If there is no cheaper alternative available in the area that meets the resident’s needs, the council cannot legally force a top-up.
• Written Agreement: A formal agreement must be signed by the third party, the LA, and sometimes the care home, detailing the amount and frequency.
• Direct Payment Options: The Local Government Ombudsman advises that third parties should be given the option to pay the top-up fee directly to the council, rather than directly to the care provider.
• Regular Reviews: The top-up arrangement must be reviewed by the LA at least once a year. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

• If the higher cost is due to the resident's assessed needs (e.g., they need a specialist room size or high-level staffing), the LA should pay the full cost, not ask for a top-up.
• If the only available homes that can meet the resident's needs are all above the council’s set rate, the council must increase its budget, not ask for a top-up. 1, 2, 3]

It is a bit of a minefield. I chose a nursing home for my late OH that cost a very great deal more than the LA were willing to pay, but there was no way on this earth that I was going to allow him to go to the ones the LA presented me with. It was a financial risk but I knew his life span was limited and I was also pursuing funding from the health authority via Continuing Care Funding (which he received on appeal.)

Geniune question here.....as came from a capitalist national background before naturalising here in the UK

If LA covered fees for some, would they not have to for all. Then what is to stop senior citizens selling their house and gifting the money away and leaving only the bare minimum as savings to get into care home expecting LA to pay the rest

Note , I am not anti-socialist and geniunely glad to be in a society that cares for the less fortunate, but the possible ways to work the system here are what worry me

@Crunchybiscuit1I would be interested in the outcome, as I was a bit shocked to realise I was being asked to take responsibility for payment on parent’s behalf. Glad to hear that it is not the norm

They don’t publish their rates but you can request their current ones by contacting them. Each LA is different and their rates are different.

Yes this is my worry with my elderly relative. We cannot find a buyer for his home. We have signalled to social services that we are probably going to need to go down the deferred payment route. We have the uncertainty now about if it does come to that will he need to be moved? The contract does seem to be one that makes the “named relative” responsible. I’ve said to the other LPA that we will now need to be very clear with Social Services the date at which we will have to give notice to the current home (if they won’t cover the full shortfall once he can’t afford to pay himself). It’s not a massively expensive home but I’m guessing may be above council rates.

Does anyone know whether council’s publish their rates? I’ve not been able to find anything for the council concerned in any of their guides. I’ve sent an email but they haven’t replied as yet.

Not strictly true. Every care home I went to asked ME to sign, saying I could personally pay my parents’ (huge) top up fees when their money ran out. There was not a single contract that stated the LA would pay the top up fees. The managers all told me directly that when the private funding money ran out, if I did not pay the extra, my parent would be asked to leave immediately. The local authorities are broke. Adult social care is their biggest bill. The care homes are good at pressurising you. When I stated that the top up fees would be unaffordable and in combination with a second elderly parents’ top up fees would be more than my mortgage and how did families afford this - they told me to go and ask all different family members to all chip in to pay the fees.

In reality this is a very stressful situation to be in because moving your relative to a different care home often means one miles away, not of your choosing for a myriad of negative reasons. There are so few care homes that have fees low enough to match those of the LA rates.

This. Everyone who privately funds is subsidising all the residents who are funded by the council as councils do not pay full whack.

If you refuse to pay the care home after signing to say you will, they can and do throw your relative out.

But that is exactly what I said. They cannot enforce it, because you can give notice and move your relative elsewhere. I had had similar wording in my mother's contract, yet I was never asked to personally pay them anything. When her funds ran out, the local authority paid.

You are right that some homes will not accept local authority clients without a top up from relatives, but that is a separate issue.

This is in care home contracts. It was in my mum's. If the funding (say from a house sale) runs out, someone has to agree to pay.

This is not true. The care home gives you the contract with the top up fees in it. When your relative’s money runs out, the LA will then take over paying the fees but there is a maximum they will pay. For example, if your relative pays £1400 per week, the LA contribution to this is usually about £900 per week. Therefore the care home will demand the adult child pay the difference (£500 per week in this case). The care home will ONLY allow the adult children to sign to say that in the event of top up fees, they will pay them indefinitely until the person dies.

If you refuse to pay the care home after signing to say you will, they can and do throw your relative out.

If you refuse to sign in the beginning, most care homes won’t let your relative move in the home in the first place. It’s sign to say you’ll pay top up fees on behalf of your parent, indefinitely for life - or sod off. When it comes to top up fees, a care home will only allow the adult children to be liable. Care homes are largely privately run for huge profits, and they have the local authorities over a barrel. There is a shortage of places so they know they can do it. And they do do it. It took me along time to find a care home for my mother which did not include top up fees. They are rare. But they do exist.

How would a care home 'come after your money'? That would be impossible, you could just give them a month's notice and move your relative elsewhere. Top ups from family are voluntary, and it is the local authority who request top ups not the care home.

Do not sign it. I expect there is a clause that says when the money runs out they will expect you to pay the shortfall between the LA contribution and the actual cost invoiced by the care home, aka the notorious top up fees. Do not sign it.

Exactly this. The care home is trying it on. If you sign to say you're the client and accept liability for the fees, they can come after your money as well as your mum's.

@Secretseverywhere Yes my mother's care home worked on that type of basis too, if you had been there for a few years they would keep you on as LA funded.

But they would not accept the stated LA rate. The LA offer was £680 pw, but my mother’s room cost £1200 - huge gap. The manager told me the LA would not find anywhere else which would accept her for £680 and he was right. After several weeks of negotiating the care home agreed to pay the care home £1100 pw.

I think all care homes have their own rules. My relative was in one where you had to prove you had funds for a minimum of three years but if the money ran out after that and you were eligible for council funding they’d accept the council rate.

I just had a look at my mother's contract with the care home. It is phrased similarly to yours @Crunchybiscuit1 , but it did only mean that I was responsible for organising payments, there was no question of me personally paying.

In the contract my mother is the 'service user' and I am her 'adviser' and it says "The service user or his/her adviser is responsible for the payment of the weekly fee".

(The LA always ask if you will top up, but you don't have to say yes. When my mother moved to LA funding I said no, and they agreed to cover the whole cost of her placement.)

My friends recently agreed with care home that when/ if their mums savings run out they will pay £80 a week (each!!) top up on local authority payment as LA won’t cover full cost.

Agree. 100% do not sign something making yourself liable when the service is being provided to your mum and you are just acting for her as LPA. She is definitely the client and not you.

Don't sign it. The client should be the resident. Maybe they can say that if she is no longer able to pay then you must remove her or help her seek funding from LA, but they can't demand you personally pay. Well I guess they could but I wouldn't accept that.

@Dancingsquirrels it's a negotiated rate. The LA have a set rate they say they are willing to pay. Care home refuse it becaise it is ridiculously low and they cannot provide the necessary care for that amount. The two sides then negotiate a rate they are both prepared to accept. (My mother's care home manager explained the process to me.)

I'd expect the council will have a set rate they're willing to pay and the care home would accept that rate, if your DM's funds ran out. Would be terrible publicity for the home if they forced her to leave

@Crunchybiscuit1 if you have time please let us know how the care home respond. Absolutely do not sign anything which indicates you would personally have to pay the fees.

@Mcdhotchoc you may not have to move her if/when her funds run out. Unless you have chosen a particularly expensive care home, the local authority may well keep her in that placement as they won't be able to find anywhere cheaper who will accept her. That is what happened with my mother.