Guardian article today that might resonate here

@Daygloboo Quality of life and Quality of life years (QALYs) are measurable things, used in research.

What you think, what you want is only relevant to you. If you want to spend your whole life caring for your parent - crack on.

Others don't want to spend their lives this way, or do so but would like some acknowledgment that it comes at a cost to them - in time, in money, in enjoyable years of their life, in time with their other family members - and in my experience it sometimes comes at the cost of their own lives.

What you don't get to do is to tell other people that because you're happy to do this that people who think differently are wrong - as you said 'who the hell do you think you are'

Don't patronise me. Of course I care for myself too. I'm not an idiot.

Talk to the parent of many disabled children and they would disagree with you. Except in extreme cases, i dont think ppl have the right to decide other ppls' fate. Im not religious. Whose criteria are you going to use. Ive met 'able' ppl who probably should be dead because they are an absolute pain in the arse and contribute absolutely nothing to society. Should i kill them. No.

I'm allowed to care for my dad my way, and feel what I feel.

You are @Daygloboo But remember to care for yourself too.

Years ago I remember PiLs' neighbour, who was often found wandering the streets in her nightie, crying for her mummy. My MiL was very unsteady on her feet and mercifully slow-moving, but would wander around the house switching on the empty kettle, the hobs, etc. And my dad has escaped from home and wandered off many times, to the great worry of my mother and our family, we have attached AirTags to everything we can think of including one in a specialised insole, but just try finding him in an 18-storey apartment complex.

All cases of lovingly cared-for (albeit perhaps without a warm superior glow of happiness) dementia patients, but let me tell you they turn into bloody Houdinis, and especially in the small hours (when the warm superior glow of happiness is especially eclipsed by the groggy gloom of sleeplessness). I'm just imagining how much worse the wandering and meddling with appliances would be with the aid of a schmancy robot exoskeleton!

Where did i say i was better than you. It's bloody hard work and i dont like it but i love them.and i do it. I just dont want to start living in a world where we write people off as soon as things become inconvenient. That is a very dangerous world. Everyone is free to deal with it their way, but dont make something the norm ( i.e getting rid of old people at the drop of a hat) that i don't want to be a part of. I'm allowed to carecfor my dad my way, and feel what I feel.

Don't feel guilty ,you are far from alone, it is relentless, energy sapping and all the rest.
I am a little cynical about anyone who says otherwise.
You can still love someone at the same time as wanting to be a thousand miles away from them because you just don't have one atom of energy left to care for them.

If a person of any age has no quality of life they should be allowed to fade away. It happens all the time to children. We could keep children with ancephaly alive if we wanted to but thank god we don't. Although there is talk keeping them alive on respirators until their organs are needed for transplantation to others. But it's not (yet) allowed as most right thinking people believe it is evil to keep people with no quality of life alive. Except if they have dementia it seems.

I find it obscene that you have the nerve to decide what is 'low' quality and what is ' high' quality life.. And as someone who is very spatially aware and was really good at dance, I would thank you not to judge my future possible negotiation of space with some device that I find helpful as being hauled about. How the hell do you know what my elxperience of that would be. Who the hell do you think you are. And things can be mass produced you know.

Is anyone else imagining their relative that can hardly recall their own name wandering off down the high street in the exoskeleton?
Or the call when it runs out of battery and they’re stuck in their Wallace and Grommit robot trousers at the Bingo and can I come back from work and organise the engineer to come out as an emergency.
Or the automated sling system has failed and their stuck strapped to the ceiling as they pressed the wrong button 😂We might yet look back fondly at this present age of analog elderly care! 😂

Dont underestimate the pathetic quality of care in this country.

My experience isn't even from this country. To infer that the damage done by dementia is down to quality of care is just ignorant

I love and look after my very elderly father too. I wouldn't do it if I didn't love him. But I am not very happy to do it. It isn't a privilege, it's relentless, and frustrating, and energy- and time-sapping. I know that's not what anyone wants to hear. I'm glad for you that you're happy to do it, but i would be lying to say i do. Do you think that makes you morally superior to me? I do feel a lot of guilt for my lack of enthusiasm, so maybe you are just a better person.

@Daygloboo This is the elderly care board. It is about individuals caring for the elderly who have already had a fair shot at life, not a child who has not.

Very different things.

Can i ask you if you think a severely disabled child who can't eat or drink or go to the loo should be allowed to fade away. I think all ofvthat would be barbaric.

@Daygloboo And how much will that all cost?

Who is paying for it? What is being denied other members of society to pay for it?

What if people don't want to be hauled about by robots? Think about the damage caused if someone with dementia panics?

What is the point of endlessly prolonging low quality life - other than massive profits for the pharmaceutical, care and technology companies of course.

In my 60’s now and both parents have died. Honestly, I’m relieved.

That's just one example obviously. There's loads.

Many falls can exacerbate dementia actually. The more prevention, the better the health outcome. To call the inventions 'crazy ' is such poverty of imagination, I assert. And many sad elderly people may be people who are not being offered adequate choice of how to live. Dont underestimate the pathetic quality of care in this country. Let's do what needs to be done at least, and if people still want to die after that, then so be it. But let's not just write everything off before we've even tried. Things could be so much better.

There is so much that can be done

but should it be done? And if so, why?

Unless the Japanese are busy working on the magic bullet that will arrest or reverse dementia, I can't see that mechanical legs or devices to prevent falls will help somehow. Probably make matters worse if anything, by trapping them for longer in functioning bodies with failing brains.

And what use is that for someone who doesn't remember to eat or drink or go to the toilet?

This thread makes me appreciate my dm in her 80’s, who still swims every day as she doesn’t want to give me a hard time. MIL by contrast expects her 3 children to be available day and night, one is her full time carer and subsequently has no life of her own whatsoever.

I would rather check out at Dignitas than do that to my kids.

That’s all well and good for a cognitively able elderly person in the future who has money to go towards inventions. We’re talking about the reality of caring for elderly relatives now who we love very much and are not an ‘inconvenience’ but are mere shells of themselves, are sad and confused and in pain, and are telling us that they want to die, they’ve had enough. Caring for someone with dementia is relentless. Just have a proper read of this thread for a tiny insight into some carer’s lives before suggesting crazy potential Japanese inventions which would be very unlikely to change the circumstances of the relatives we are talking about

Japan. Mechanical legs and exoskeletons

Agree.