LPA Confusion

@PrizedPickledPopcorn sadly not. I am older and she bitterly resents that - not sure that is my fault. DF has paid for so much for them over the years (her DH’s HGV course, her drying out rehab etc) but she can’t bear it if he spends anything on us or my adult DDs. The irony is that had he gone into a home after his accident at c£1500 per week, when he eventually dies, her legacy would be so much less. By me having him here, it’s adding to what she will eventually inherit, but all she has done is criticise. It culminated last year with her DH and DS calling me a fucking bitch because I dared to answer her back. Most of the extended family sees through her, but my aunt is well under her spell.
It’s quite cathartic just typing it out.

Coming late to this but DF had LPAs set up
by my nightmare of a sister. She knows everything, so instead of taking advice and nominating deputies, she just had herself and me. After DF was almost scammed, we took the LPA into his local branch and they added me to his accounts. They talked to him to make sure he was happy - he still has capacity now. Barclays Bank were really good and I got my own card & PIN a few days later.

Sister lives abroad and was furious so on her next visit, didn’t tell DF but got her own card & PIN. The first we knew was an email or text from Barclays. Because we are named jointly & severally on the LPA, they had to give them to her once she had proven her identity. DF lives with me - has done since an accident 2.5 years ago. She does nothing other than cast aspersions on anything and everything I do.

Posted it 1st Oct 25, Chq cleared 5th Nov, checking started on 13th Jan, 'agreed' 10th March and written confirmation arrived end April. I did chase it twice (which may have sent it to the back of the queue!) but 5/6 months from when I posted it. My marbles could have been well and truly lost in that time!!

Slight derail, the cheque for my POA was cashed 11th November but it still says Received and hasn't got as far as being checked yet - I've chased it and you get holding emails saying they'll respond in 15 working days. So, 9 weeks sitting in an in-tray somewhere.....don't leave it too long before applying for one!

We invoked later. It involved e-mails to all close relatives copied into the office of the power of attorney and a months wait while they waited for any injections. We had a doctors note too.

I’m sure I’ve said this before, but we did get one signed with a bit of a set up, with the elderly relatives 2 closest friends (who were worried about the ER) coming for lunch, and going on about what a sensible idea it was, and how much they admired her for thinking about it etc. One of them was able to act as certifier and another as a witness, so we could hit while the iron was hot so to speak.

and yes being able to deal with finances without certified lack of competence was v useful, we first realised the wheels were coming off when her tax return wasn’t done.

I would get two sets of papers set up and ready, and leave one with her for a while to think about - literally ‘oh here’s that LPA paperwork, I’m sure you’ll want to take a look before we go any further’ and then leave it for a few days/weeks. Then go back and when she ‘can’t find’ the paperwork, bring out the other set and proceed in the most neutral practical way you can manage when every sinew is straining to get the bloody thing done.

It’s easy to say when I know I don’t intend to abuse the power (dm might see it differently) but to me it is a no-brainer. In the vast majority of families, it is better to have next of kin making decisions for you than some random professional who has never seen you before. That’s the choice, and that’s why it’s difficult- people struggle to hold the idea of being genuinely incapable of making decisions in their heads - they can’t imagine what it would look like.

This is really difficult and shows the difference between theory and reality with LPA. In theory, if the elder doesn’t trust other people, they shouldn’t give them power of attorney. In practice, it is exactly the people who are suspicious of everyone else who probably most need to have it in place.

How about saying to your mum that it’s possible to revoke the finance LPA and why doesn’t she put it in place and see how it goes for a year, then if not happy, revoke it? Or is she too likely to do that?

I sold it to my mum on the principle that ‘you make the decisions, I do the legwork’ which was true. I did nothing with it for several months except set up an online login so that I could reassure her when she rang me in a panic. I think I also helped her with her tax return but I could have done that withoutvLPA tbh. Then she had a stroke.

Having granted it over a decade ago, my DP agreed to invoke the POA about 2 years ago. They both have capacity but needed help with stuff like insurance claims, tax returns, finding tradesmen and paying their invoices, etc.

To begin with I paid for stuff they needed and they repaid me, but after a few months I notified their bank and now have online access to their bank accounts and a bank card. It makes it much simpler both to pay bills and buy stuff they need.

I am joint POA with my sibling but it has worked out that I do all the work ... but they could step in if I was not able to.

Yes, so the nearby relative could, for example, do the weekly food shop for your mum, send the attorney photos of receipts, then the attorney could check the receipts and then pay the relative back from Mum's money. Obvs, I'm not a lawyer, but I couldn't see there being an issue with that. I would recommend the attorney keeps careful records though, just in case there's family drama down the line.

It would actually be better if your mum has 2 attorneys. If one attorney is ill, or on holiday (or worst case, but it happens, dies) your mum no longer has anyone to look after her affairs. If she refuses, try to get her to name the nearby relative as a replacement attorney. But I understand it's tricky and you have to be pragmatic if your mum is being difficult. One attorney is better than none!

Just a thought... I had solicitors draw up the LPoA for DM, DH and me. I have assumed it was worth the money as I've had no problems invoking PoA in any circumstance.

I had LPOA for DM and DH. I had no problems invoking it when they lost capacity at later date.

Oh I see. On the notes I read against my DPs' it did exactly that, present it as problematic to only have it when capacity is lost.

Ime permission isn’t needed.

relative had a LPA. Was competent, but needed physical care. Her daughter lodged the LPA with banks without asking her, and got full access. Took every penny. Thousands. Was even able to get her house on the market.

bank didn’t question it until relative managed to get to the bank with a friend as she’d “lost” her bank cards. When they saw what had happened the account were all immediately frozen and a referral to OPG made.

Estate agent didn’t question it. Just needed the LPA documents.

not one institution phoned or asked to see the donor to check she knew the LPA had been invoked.

banks need to put systems in place to check LpA’s have been done with permission. At the minute there isn’t.

Yes I know it does, They are strongly recommending the finance LPA is effective immediately, rather than needing to be invoked when needed. Invoking it later is being presented on the website as problematic, that you need to repeatedly prove the donor has lost capacity my question was which website is she using strongly recommends / problematic wording.

My parents activated theirs immediately but all information needed is in their safe which I have the code for. Means I could immediately act if needed

No, an attorney can't give a third party access.

Why doesn't your mum put both people down as joint and several attorneys? (Note, joint and several, not joint) That way the person closest can do the day to say stuff and just keep the other attorney informed. And vice versa.