How can we encourage them to accept help in the home from outside agencies?

@charliehungerford one agency to start looking at is Home Instead.

@charliehungerford based on advice I read on this board, I applied and got attendance allowance and framed this as ‘the money is for carers’. We started with a gardener and a couple of hours care that left a surplus in the allowance. The care has gradually increased and now surpasses the attendance allowance but we can cope with that.

some people get individuals in to provide care. Some people get agencies. For me it’s a bit like choosing a childminder over a nursery. For the former, you get more of a one to one relationship, which is great if the carer and your parents get on. For the latter you get the support of a bigger network. You won’t be left high and dry because one person is ill or on holiday and you can ask to swop people if there is someone they prefer. It’s also a bit easier to feedback to an agency on service than to feedback to an individual; sometimes less personal helps! The agency we use also provide day care so that is another plus as my parent is at a stage where the variety of activities, contact with others and a hot meal is appreciated as other horizons have narrowed.

The vicar is often a good person to contact, they may know of someone? Also if you google any local Good Neighbour service, they may not be right themselves but again they may know of this kind of person.

A friend is a cleaner/housekeeper who mostly helps elderly people to stay in their own homes. She cleans, but also checks in with people, what supplies are needed, whether any home maintenance is needed. If needed she'll be there to meet the plumber etc. She keeps an eye on what people are eating, suggests more nutritious meals where needed, and will help to prepare them. She sometimes takes people to medical appointments and has often called for help or gone with them to A&E if needed. For those having home carer visits for personal care, she checks what carers are doing and makes it easier for them to do their job. I think she needs to find the right title for what she does, because "cleaner" seems such an understatement. "Girl Friday"? Anyway, someone like her is much easier to accept than a visiting carer from an agency.

When my 80 year old ( stubborn) dad needed care, I framed it as ‘support crew’ which was a care agency . Initially it was companionship for a couple of hours a week after mum passed. I then increased this as he’d got food poisoning twice from mouldy rice / out of date meat. Also he now has dementia so his ‘support crew’ help with meals , showers and cleaning .

I took the tack that paying for help and a stairlift were an investment as it meant being able to stay in the home for longer. By spending x amount each month on help my mum was saving y amount as she wasn’t then needing to go into a home.

We’ve had that exact problem. Our experience is that it’s not possible until there’s a crisis that makes them literally helpless.

Horrible thing to say but you have to let them get on with it, something will eventually go wrong and only then are they likely to admit defeat and accept help.

Don't fill the gap yourself though or you'll end up visiting every weekend.

You can’t. You just have to let them get on with it. Unless they both lack capacity or one is vulnerable and the others actions are putting the vulnerable one in danger, there’s nothing at all that can be done.

Been there done that. You’ll never persuade them. The only way is to step back, stop propping up the situation and let a crisis develop. See less of them if necessary. PIL lived with a cross that bridge mentality, until they needed help and were then straight on the phone day and night. It left a very unpleasant legacy.
Agree with pp about attendance allowance. MIL got nearly £450 a week ‘non means tested!’ and just added it to the hundreds of thousands she already had in the bank. All wrong.

I bought my mum a deep clean for any room for her birthday. It was organised through a local cleaner who knew I was trying to persuade dm to have a weekly cleaner.

DM insisted on 'supervising', and the cleaner deserved a halo for putting up with her, but it worked and got her through the door, at first to do a deep clean on each room over the next two months, and then a weekly tidy up.

Withdraw. No help, no visits.

You have my sympathies OP it's bloody frustrating and stressful when they won't accept help or acknowledge their frailty.

We had very similar with my parents after my mum was ill and needed help. I'm afraid in the end we just organised things for them - it was all quite slow & gradual but we basically sorted it all out, told them how wonderful it would be and then instructed how & when to pay.

We asked around locally and found them a local angel/cleaner/housekeeper + - someone there for cleaning plus paid extra for housekeeping jobs, having a cuppa and being our local eyes & ears - she's amazing and will sort the fridge, putting a wash on, call one of us if either looks off colour or something attention. but to my parents she is just the cleaner rather than help. We met her for chat & home inspection, agreed date & time and just told Dad how much to leave out for her in an envelope each week (plus we all clubbed together to pay a enerous xmas bonus as we'd be lost without her) . Considering how resistant they were, they have actually really done well and now look forward to the weekly chat, cuppa and company plus house clean. If you can't find someone locally on recommendation, there are agencies that offer this type of service,

Ditto cooked meals - we paid for and sent a delivery of those posh ready meals and once they found a couple they liked, we set them up with a delivery service and my dad was happy to pay for this.

I got mine a "gardener" who was specifically employed to gradually offer more and more support such as shopping etc.

Problem I had was the agency who had great reviews wasn’t that great. I was 100 miles away and Mum kept cancelling what I had asked them to do. The lazy carer didn’t report this back and Mum never said.

On reflection I should have been firmer. Asked the agency to report back if Mum was cancelling jobs to be done.

I did end up guilt tripping Mum. Two can play at the game as another PP says.

Mum wasn’t always like this and lived independently for years but became anxious and panicked at the slightest thing in later years. Siblings lived abroad and washed their hands of her. Pretended that they didn’t get her phone call until all sorted (by me!)

I did this with late DM. Old people become in in incredibly selfish as they age.

Cannot see anyone else’s point of view but don’t seem to have an issue if YOU do something even though you might live 100’s of miles away. It probably goes without saying that the houses some elderly people live in have not been touched for years and cleaning is something that is rarely done.

issue I had was that Mum would outright lie and not do what I suggested. She then fell and guess who was called. In fact the whole county seemed to have my mobile and email at one point. She gave it out to everyone…..

I'm at an age now where I'm out the other side of this, but my friends and I had similar problems when our parents were at that age. Their independence becomes entirely dependent on you. The pressure and worry for you becomes a constant problem and, possibly the worst part is, you don't know how long this will last and there is no good way out of it.

Things that worked in my experience and that of my friends -

Sad to say, but waiting for a crisis to occur. A hospital admission, a fall - then go in very forecefully with a 'You need help, this is what we're going to do or things will go to rack and ruin'.

Start small. I worked as a gardener and often it was the daughter of an elderly person who would employ me. The parents started seeing work getting done by a smiley lady who came in for a couple of hours a week and was happy to help about the place. They'd make me tea, we'd have a chat, I'd help them turn their mattress or play with their dog, It wsn't like I was a carer - I was a cheery employee. Then the daughter would brinig in a cleaner, a home visiting hair dresser, a man to do the guttering etc. Soon the parents had a happy little army of helpers around who were more like friends and family to them than they imagined they would be. (the first person you employ will be used to this situation and will have a raft of contacts you can tap into).

Gang up. Don't let your parents play sibling off against sibling. Have a party line and all stick with it.

Lastly, I would say, constantly remember your own boundaries. You can only live your own life. If your parents won't spend on themselves then that is up to them. You could have a decade or more of this. Do not lose it entirely to them. I mean that kindly honestly.

I’m trying to get my parents to get a cleaner, just a normal one and that’s being rejected, again not money connected, my siblings don’t expect anything to be left to us and have made it clear

Can you show up to visit with a cleaner? So you say “I’m coming to help and Jane (the cleaner) is here to help me.” Then you introduce Jane to the parents and the house. When the cleaning is done, you praise Jane and ask if she can come next week.

Sounds like a nightmare. Sorry. Maybe you could set up a meeting with the agency? Say someone you know used them and said they were v helpful? Say it will be helping you? Just trying to think about breaking down the mindset. Ask them what they will spend money on? Madness to be saving it! This is the rainy day

@PermanentTemporary that made me smile. Playing them at their own game indeed 🤣

Suggest something temporary and if you can get to ‘maybe…’ then set it up pronto. To be fair, dp’s mum was absolutely right that she didnt need a live in carer, it only lasted 3 weeks. After that she happily accepted a daily care visit and that has been successful.

If you can’t beat them, join them. Get a bit bossier, a bit more unreasonable and a bit more emotionally blackmailing. ‘God, Dad, I actually couldn’t sleep last night thinking about your fridge. You’re a mule and it’s unbearable. I’ve got acid reflux thinking about it, let me just take my tablets. No it’s ok, I’m under the doctor for investigations. Just let me sort out a cleaner, I can’t believe that you’re behaving exactly like Grandad. No I’m just upset’ [tears]

I had to deal with this with an elderly relative . Patiently explained that the alternative was looking at a Care home as I could not live with the uncertainty of their safety .
For the first few times of carers and cleaners visit I was there to supervise, ask their opinions as to what they wanted such as shower on Friday or what day . Shopping , need cooking , laundry . Most carers are used to dealing with new clients and will appreciate your guidance . Same with the garden , took him outside to decide what he wanted . It gave him a measure of control and then he liked the idea that they were his employees and would be guided by him. Worked well left me free to take him out occasionally which I pointed out couldn't happen if I was cleaning bathrooms or shopping.