Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

That is good to hear. I am glad it has worked out well for her.

I am so glad my DM did this (serendipitously as a result of her community activities) as now in her 90s neither she not her remaining (very few) contemporaries can travel to visit each other , but her "younger" friends in their 70s and 80s still go to see her from time to time.

Why on earth did you pander to your mum by changing supermarket just because the delivery driver was scruffy? That looks like an overreaction on your part.

Along with the breakdown in community social systems there are probably a large number of elders who like their parents before them were led to believe that children would want to look after their parents and it was expected of them to do so. They have been let down by the shift in society from a community system to an individual first system and are probably a bit angry or confused as to what has gone wrong. Many of us grew up with behaviors from our parents that only now in adulthood are we being told are not acceptable and perhaps that’s the pushback? Parenting has changed as well as the responsibility of the younger generation to the older generation.

I am in my late 30s, and for the last couple of years I have been making a real effort to build meaningful friendships with people I'd like to be friends with into my older years. Not of course with the idea that they'll act as 'carers' or anything like that, but just to have a social network and not be totally isolated.

Someone on another thread told me I was 'creepy' for doing this. 🙁

This is so true. I think it still holds for the small number of people in th UK who are still church goers. My mother had a wide group of women from church who did all that. When she declined the ones that were left visited and gave company. The Baptist church around the corner were amazing even though it wasn't her church.
I have been looking for ways to volunteer to do something similar, I'm not a church goer.

As to loneliness and cognitive decline. DH is 76 and would happily be a hermit. His brain has always been busy and active. He came home this morning and told me that on his walk he had been trying to calculate whether you could deal a unique hand of poker to the entire population. It turns out you can't but you could if you used 6 cards. He'll be fine on his own, me not so much.

I do think the points about community are really important - my ore mentioned FIL has joined the over 60 friendship club in his town - twice a week for 5 hours, warm nice hall, 2 course ( good) lunch for a tenner , bar, coffees , raffle, quiz, day trips out , mix of ages over 60 and sexes and new people to chat to - he’s enjoying it ! Not sure who funds it , but it’s a fab initiative.

For some people old age has become very medicalised and some folk end up going on for ages with no cognition, motor skills, life enjoyment. That's a relatively new problem.

@BlueLegume we had this too. Ultimately there is no medication that Dad could have got to help him overall, but he was on lots of things that were keeping him going a bit longer. It added up to a very long 4.5 years of life after he lost mobility, continence and a lot of cognitive ability. This for someone who used to regularly lecture us about how he'd rather poison himself than end up in a home.

Yes I get that - I do realise at some point FIL will probably get a lot more frail if he stays around , which I think is why he’s future proofed, partly to avoid care homes if he can

I think this is so true- you kind of reap what you sow- and if you become very insular either alone or as a couple , that will get worse unless you make some big changes - this really won’t bother some people but don’t get shirty about it if your family don’t want or cannot take up the gaps in care/social life.

OP, this is such an interesting thread. Thank you for starting it! So much of what you write about your parents resonates with me. My own parents were farmers, lived in the same community they were born in and remained active until they pretty much fell over. They also had a social life, Church and a lot of extended family around them.

PILs on the other hand had very much the same attitude that you mention. They were professionals and lived in a very nice middle-class neighbourhood although FIL was made redundant several times during his career so their house moves, holidays and car changes somewhat stalled and certainly MIL always felt that she was living below her station. They were very fussy about friendships, found fault with people a lot (in their nice middle-class neighbourhood – we're not talking an inner-city ghetto or anything) and ended up with a very diminished social circle. I remember when they were probably in their 70s it felt as if their world had shrunk so much that they would tell us in all seriousness that they had a very busy day if, for example, one of them was going to the dentist and they were having a plumber call.

I was actually speaking about this with friends the other night, and we all agreed that as we age we absolutely get tired more easily, there's probably some cognitive decline and we will all end up exhibiting some of the behaviours that we despair of in our parents generation, but I honestly can't see that DH and I would ever turn into them. We are now in our 60s, trying to remain open to new experiences and people, staying fit and active and considering it a privilege rather than a hassle to host guests, have a full calendar, drive an hour to see a theatre show or whatever.

I'm going to take some time to read back over more of these posts.

If I’m honest I was horrified when my DF had a pacemaker at maybe 86. He had a further two years afterwards and of course it’s not my call, but I would have said 86 was old enough. He was much more frail after that.

I know what pp mean about extreme old age. My DF sounds a bit like yours @Crikeyalmighty but ten years ago. In his 80s he was walking up and down the hill to shops every day for the paper and doing all the shopping and still driving. He was always a runner, ran marathons in his 50s, very healthy diet, never drank or smoked. Somewhere in his 90s he just got very frail. He never learned to put muscle on or to maintain it (and you might say, well he’s in his 90s!) but now everything is a struggle because he is just so weak. He is still mobile with a stick but prone to wobbling and falls. TBH he has just lived too long. He has a pacemaker for atrial fibrillation and if he had t had that I think he would have keeled over a decade ago, and that would have been appropriate.

@HoraceGoesBonkersand one of the deeply not funny funny things about it is every solution I propose is roundly poo pooed then ends up being instigated a couple of months later when actually it’s almost past it’s usefulness and we’re on to the next crisis. I try to remember that some of this is down to DFs dementia and possibly DMs as well, but DF particularly has always been a belligerent sod so it’s very hard for me to remain calm.

For the sake of my own mental health I have had to detach as much as I can with regular visits.

I agree with this too. My DF had a diagnosis that meant he was quite likely to need care and a care home when he got older. My DP did nothing about this for a decade and only started looking at mobility adaptations, home adaptations, carers then a care home when he was absolutely at crisis point at every step.

The human race has a 100% mortality rate and although some of us die very suddenly, a lot of people do deteriorate before they die, and it seems sensible to have a plan in place no matter how fit and engaged and individual is.

We do seem hard wired not to want to old age plan, as a species.

I think you are right. I fear my own future - no children, no extended family and possibly no community to get involved with either.

My parents are 80 and 85 and live wealthy and fucking miserable lives. They have no (maybe a couple) of friends. My father goes out daily for a walk but despises life and people. He hates reading and watches endless ‘A place in the sun’ and enjoys writing to the bbc and telegraph / times to complain about poverty/ people on benefits/ religion etc. of course he is entitled to the winter fuel allowance, free bus pass etc even though he is a millionaire. My mother is a bit better she will do art or jewellery courses but can’t have people or friends round because of him. They can’t stand each other - they live on separate floors. I am one of 3 siblings. We had an abusive and awful upbringing my all moved far away but I moved back on the promise of them being ‘better’ and more emotionally available. Bugger that. I live round the corner from them (they don’t know where I live) and their house is full of shit. They have an 8 bedroomed house and literally my mother has a wardrobe and chest of drawers in every room crammed with clothes. My father had two double garages built and it’s filled with hundreds of drills, string, wood - oh my god! The loft is bulging. Every room is full of storage that is full.

My parents always talked about money, inheritance and it was a way of keeping us inline and control. A decade ago I was like - shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. I’ll meet you for a coffee if you like but if you call me a name - I will leave. At some point they might need nursing. But I won’t be involved.

Us, we have a 3 storey house. Even now we are sorting out Xmas decs and constantly sorting and cleaning out as we go. I have one wardrobe- clothes don’t fit in there I can’t have them. I used to have thousands of books I don’t any more. I read a book and donate it! My husband and I have a master plan of retirement. Already got an allotment, rugby club and various other things but I do clubs and have a social life.

They'd be happy to, but don't. Because the societal frameworks to do that don't really exist anymore. Most people don't proactively get to know their neighbours beyond a "hello", or are especially comfortable with their neighbours trying to proactively get to know them. And we don't do those community things anymore that would mean we'd meet people from across social strata - church, sports spectating, social clubs, etc.

Professional care has always been necessary, though historically delivered communally rather than at home. It's just that whole strata of older people who don't necessarily need professional support, but would benefit from a bit of companionship for their mental health, as much as anything else.

@roundaboutthehillsareshiningI agree community support has dwindled for many reasons including increase of retirement age. I also think longevity is part of the issue. Many people would be happy to pop into their neighbours and say have a cup of tea with them on a regular basis or do some shopping, but as people get into extreme old age the needs get much higher and in most cases best delivered by professional services.

But part of that is the aspects of societal breakdown. There's a fine line between being happy in your own company, and being lonely. If I think about my grandmother, for example, she had close links to the community and to her church, and was very much part of the "ladies who do" set. So, for example, when a member of the church was widowed (and back then it usually was the men who died first), it would be the "ladies who do" who would organise popping in to the widow, bringing food, doing a bit of light housekeeping, organising transport to church and to the shops and generally "jollying along." And that community cohesion was important. It's definitely gone now, and with it, the casual community support that helped many elderly people through.

I wouldn't want to go back to a world where women couldn't work. I recognise that the skills that made my grandmother such a bastion in her community would also have got her very far in employment, had she been able to progress beyond being a war-trained nurse. She, and the women like her, could have changed the world. But the ebbing of the church from modern life has left a gap in companionship before personal care, in my opinion....

Oh god... I could have written this myself...

My empathy!

Yep, my FIL who is 86 is around 14 and a half stone and 5ft 11 . He is still very mobile, does lots of DIy, follows lots of things on internet, doesn’t have a carer or a cleaner . One thing though is he walks into town about 15 minutes up and down hills, and he still eats well, even if it’s ready meals with added veg, he eats a fair bit of fruit too, large glass of red every day and a handful of unsalted nuts- he’s on various meds but has been for lots of years . He does comment how poorly a lot of people his age eat , far too much sugar and living on sandwiches and cake etc and often not much protein at all. I do realise it can be the luck of the draw but diet I think can be a big part of it with the elderly as can mindset. He actually moved 150 miles last year from a totally dying village in Kent to Frome , which whilst not everyone’s bag is funky and has lots going on and is very community minded - Asa hes a bit of a GB News follower I did laugh at that , but he likes the fact it’s got life! he now has a medical centre, minor injuries unit and cottage hospital on doorstep, ( literally) plus cafes, pubs, restaurants, supermarkets, M&S food hall, and a 7/11 one minute walk away plus bus and train to Bath ( we live there) - he does drive but knowing he doesn’t have to has helped him mentally. Got a nice 3 bed bungalow with only a small garden at a good price and had a huge clear out. He’s already got all the gas taken out apart from his heating . Def thinking of anything that needs future proofing . Really admire him-

One skill which a lot of folk seem to lack whilst in the process of living and getting old which would help in old age is a love for one’s own company. To be able to find peace in being alone is a wonderful thing. A lot of people busy themselves with raising of children and work that when old age comes they don’t really know what to do with themselves and then seek out others to fill this gap for them and putting pressure on DCs to step up.