Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

My late MIL knew perfectly well that King Charles the third was the king and so on, but quite happily let her (wonderful and sensible) DD take charge of the finances years before she died. My dad definitely has capacity but his judgment is not what it was. We are trying to get him to consent to DB and I having oversight via PoA (which he registered 10 years ago), but he’s not quite there yet…

I totally agree with the 'boiling a frog' explanation for how helping elderly parents takes over your life, and why it's not as easy as some think to just say no. I dropped everything to help when there was a health crisis with DF, taking time off work and putting everything else on hold. As so often happens, I don't have time to catch up on my own work/life before the next crisis and the same level of support was expected again- repeated many times until DF died by which time DM's health problems and cognitive abilities had declined. Obviously I wanted to support DM as she came to terms with DF death, but now we are in a situation where I don't feel I can keep doing what has already become expected but DM, other family members and HCP etc are expecting that I will do more.

The one thing I think would make a huge difference to DM would be if she had got in the habit of socialising more when she was fitter, and built a wider social circle. Her confusion/anxiety etc is always worse when she has not had much social interaction but unfortunately the only time she sees anyone is if one of a very small number of family members visits. She hasn't socialised much at all for many years, always claiming to be too busy, or that things she was invited to were not her sort of thing. As a result she's not met any new people and all her old friends have either passed away or are old and frail themselves. If she had joined a social club, taken up a hobby with a social element or event just taken up some of the invitations to go out that I know she declined then she might have had other friends who would pop in for a chat sometimes. Plus she would be in the habit of meeting new people and might be willing to go to one of the clubs for older people that she's been offered. I think there's a lot to be said for remaining open to doing new things and recognising that for most people socialising brings benefits in and of itself. It doesn't have to be about doing something that's terribly exciting or meeting up with people you are desperate to spend time with- just a chance to go for a walk or sit and chat with another person can make a big difference.

Good to hear @funnelfan. I do mental capacity assessments and though they’re not easy, they’re also not THAT hard to get right.

I must have been lucky with one social worker assessing capacity - they (correctly) identified that although mum was able to express a strong preference in where she lived, she was unable to articulate the consequences of that decision, given her needs. And thus said she didn’t meet the bar for capacity in their eyes.

I’m sure the vast majority of the population would say they want to be at home if they are asked for a preference. But if the same person is handwaving away questions like “how will you get to the toilet”, “who will do your laundry” with a vague it-will-get-sorted-somehow then no, they don’t have full capacity to decide where they should live.

Oh and just to comment on this - yes it is likely that the neighbours are raising their eyebrows, it’s so easy to look from the outside and think what you would do in that situation without having any real knowledge of what it entails.

Its a bit like motherhood- it’s the luck of the draw if you get a good sleeper or not, those who do go around with a dewy glow and our deemed to have “taken well to motherhood “ whereas those who don’t and develop PND or struggle are judged as lacking.

Some people are lucky enough to have DPs who never develop dementia or other infirmities and live to a ripe old age dying quietly with minimal intervention. My Duncle died aged 86 of a heart attack whilst walking up a hill on holiday, no serious illnesses except being deaf as a post - now that’s how I want to go ! But we don’t get the choice do we ? And those of us with DPs who develop more and more intensive requirements whilst either not having been great DPs or personalities shifting as they age or both, are being measured against an unfair standard for those who have zero idea what they are expecting in reality for not being caring enough, visiting enough etc. etc.

Women - particularly late middle aged women - are meant to be self sacrificial. Everyone is astonished that I am trying not to be. Why my DPs expect me to be when they brought me up in the 70s/80s to prioritise education and getting a good job is a bit of a mystery to me, but their brains are to short fused to have any meaningful conversation about anything and their immediate needs are the only overriding imperative they have left.

Sorry went on a bit of a riff there .

@BlueLegumethe capacity bar is truly puzzling to me. Just because DF might be able to identify the numbers on a clock and his DOB this doesn’t mean real capacity does it? Surely putting mouldy philadelphia on DMs toast, getting lost whilst driving and forgetting where he is ( thankfully no more driving if I manage to snaffle the keys today - fun times ), not remembering if he has taken his insulin or tested his blood sugars or not and not being able to name or see the microwave which is clearly in front of him all indicate lack of capacity.

Just because he is able to clearly state he would hate to be in a care home doesn’t really indicate capacity to me, but hey ho I am somewhat beyond the point of caring and just going through the motions now trying not to upset myself in the process. Unfortunately I do feel an obligation to try and safeguard DM as she is in the same house.

I’d agreed with DSis that she’d have H&W because she is physically closer, and we’d have Finance so we can help even at a distance. But she changed her mind and made it clear to mum that she’d be cross of it wasn’t all of us. So it’s none of us. She’s also helped mum with something recently, that’s gone really badly, and has undermined mum’s trust even further. Sis hasn’t actually done anything wrong, but because DM is an awkward cuss who over complicates everything, it’s really backfired. Sigh.

I would mind less, if I wasn’t going to be the one dealing with it all when it goes pear shaped. Which might be quite soon.

Mine won’t sign it as she’s convinced it will be used against her. And she won’t let anyone help with her money for the same reason. So she’s stuck doing stressful chores others could help with.

I wish mine just had PoA. And DM has made it clear about her needs- every last second of life is to be clutched, regardless of quality!

She’s currently watching her younger sister’s decline, and understandably upset by it. There’s no PoA there either and it’s causing problems, but she still hasn’t done one herself. Both she and MiL spend a lot of time at various medical appointments, which don’t seem to improve their quality of life. DFiL would happily go, I think. If only for a rest from being nagged by DMiL, bless him. He just wants to doze on the sofa and she won’t have it!

Yep I do post a lot generally but not on elderly board as to be honest I don’t have much to moan about!! He’s doing well and to be honest I think he is looking a lot better too - still looking for a friendly, fun, solvent, sane , well kept lady late 70s/early 80s for him - lol- I do think he misses having a woman around .

@Crikeyalmighty I’ve not seen you post for a while but I’m so glad to hear your FILs move to a bungalow is working out.

i do appreciate that I won’t necessarily know that I won’t know that I am declining. I have certain mental markers that I have observed in elderly people beginning with reluctance to make the effort to go upstairs etc.
Very importantly, I am investigating how to write a living will so that in the case I loose mental capacity, I wish not to be given any life saving drugs.

Community is there for those who seek it. The church, U3A, various volunteering organisations, choirs, sports, knit and natter… but you have to prioritise them.

And I agree with @DizzyDucklings that people also need to become content in their own company. DM needs someone to look at her and listen to her all the time. I can’t go to the toilet without her talking to me through the door. She cannot just sit and be still, read, think. She’s like a toddler.

And @Changename12 was it you who said you and your husband are fit and healthy and aren’t suffering cognitive decline? That’s great, but when it happens you won’t notice. DM is enraged at all the people who are failing to tell her things, or explain things properly, or do things properly. She’s working her way through tvs and internet providers and routers because the TV ‘isn’t working properly’. She’s can’t understand how to use it and can’t follow instructions when it’s explained. It’s )gone wrong again’. She keeps switching things off at the plug and they lose their programming and have to be set up from scratch again.

But she has no idea it’s her. It’s the stuff, it’s ‘too complicated, a silly system, changes all the time’ etc.

So make sure the back up plan is ready, even if you feel good now. Dad went from firing on all cylinders, fit active and with responsibilities, to dead within 18 months. And they hadn’t sorted anything out because he had been so well, they didn’t need to yet.

I feel too old to be dealing with EPs, to be honest. When DH and I were 25 we had one grandparent each. Our 25-30yr old kids still have 3 out of 4.

Yes very entitled.. I do what I can. Im worn out though. Could be years it. Gets you down. Hate it at times. Mean with money too. List goes on lol

God yes @rookiemere After the recent daughters'-lives-swallowing crisis dsis & I have both been deliberately easing back on the pedal and spaceing out Mum visits again -we are so lucky that she can afford and accepts carers to meet what she needs, and we have found good , reliable ones. But even then its an effort, and the visits we do make are draining, stressful and frustrating, mainly because being old and disabled is what it is really. But as we say to each other - we need to keep some powder dry for the next crisis. We do feel we get the odd raised eyebrow from her neighbours (or are we just paranoid??) but we are very quick to say how busy we both are with work, how exhausting we find the drive, etc .

These threads make me realise how very, very lucky we are.

But to those struggling with guilt while giving up too much to help unreasonably demanding parents, know that they don't have to be pandered to. It is not the obligation of all children of EPs to be dragged down to their knees, you are entitled to say "NO I CAN NOT DO THAT" And you, my eps, actually have no right to expect it.

I do think there is a fair bit of that too -

Yep , I put it down to boredom and being in an area of Kent full of it for 12 years !

Yup @Chalicesand sometimes deep down I believe I find it easier to blame my DPs for not agreeing to the care they need and being a bit angry at them because it makes it possible to try and step back from the whole sad situation swallowing me whole.

I have seen what it does to friends of a similar age who love their DPs with all their hearts - one of them has moved in with her DF and her life revolves around him and her DM in a care home and another has moved her DM with dementia into her flat with her ADHD pre adolescence DS and she is sleeping on the sofa. Honestly I would rather die myself than be in that situation and I don’t actually say that lightly.

Some people - mostly those who haven’t been through this - say I should have compassion for my poor DPs, of course I do but I also have compassion for ME as I matter too.

Frog boiling is so so apt, can’t believe I haven’t really seen it until now.

And yet I still blame myself for enabling. Boundaries are so hard when it’s people you love in a very vulnerable position, despite being flawed humans.

Good for him. Sounds like my dad, until you got to the GB news bit. That’s not like my dad.

@Forthelovcaring for elderly parents is a real boiling the frog situation.

There is usually a crisis which precipitates the decline into needing more support and who doesn’t want to help their DPs in their time of extreme need and then they get used to the level of support you provided for what was meant to be a short time, social services get hold of your number and before you know it you’re getting multiple calls per day and effectively running two households, that’s if you’re lucky enough to put the personal boundaries in place not to just end up living there.

Its such a horrible insidious takeover of your whole life and unless you’re a really strong person or your DPs were bad enough that you can walk away with no guilt it’s soul destroying.