Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

I am so sorry that’s bloody awful of him

practice certain phrases like. That won’t be happening dad and just shut him down. If he is disrespectful to your DH ‘how dare you we are very happy and have our own life’ and leave.

in the meantime go and do something nice tonight with DH. For me it’s a cold swim that settles my head after a spat (full blown argument) with mum.

What a nasty sod your F is @BlueLegume. Mine may be demanding and intransigent due to dementia, but at least I know that their conscious rational brains recognised that we have our own lives and would be horrified by the actual situation.

@BlueLegume that's interesting to hear and very forward thinking. My added issue is that I have a long term partner but we don't live together. At some point we will need to decide if this is a permanent arrangement or if we will live together in which case we'd look for a new place together.

@PrizedPickledPopcorn I totally get what you're saying. I feel like I'd ideally like another good 20 years to get my gardening skills improved, therefore that would limit options if downsizing!

@Winterbaubles you need to gather up a few more people in your age bracket to go to U3A! It’s the only way to change the demographic! Or go in addition to doing other things!

I’m not quite there yet- it’s very much on my mind, but more in a managing retirement way.

I feel as though I need a house in between now and downsizing! I want a home with lots of space and land to do gardening and craft. But then I will have to downsize! My mental solution has been, a downstairs that’s convertible to include a bedroom and shower room, if needed.

I think the next house will have to be a compromise, whatever.

This is such a helpful thread. I've only recently started reading the elderly parents forum but with parents of 82 and 84 I suspect I'm going to become a regular visitor.

The comments on the thread have really made me think about how I will plan my own future. I'm 58, semi-retired and pretty active. A few people have said that they wouldn't want to move to retirement communities too early and be surrounded by much older people and I get that. I've been looking at groups such as U3A and all the photos in the online posts seem to feature people in their 70s. I don't mean any offence to people of that age, but I just don't feel they're right for me at the moment, just as I'd feel the same of a group made up of people in their 30s.

I totally agree with the boiling frog analysis. We don't suddenly wake up one morning and think 'I'm old now, I'd better make plans'. Instead we look at our own elderly parents, say I'll never be like that (looking at you DM!) and then proceed to behave exactly as they did.

I know my home - that I love - won't be suitable as I age. It's old with no downstairs toilet and needs ongoing maintenance. I've decided this morning that I will give myself 10 years and then move to somewhere more suitable. I'm going to tell my DD to start reminding me about this in 8 years' time!

I know a wonderful older couple who I really admire for this. When they retired they downsized to a ground floor apartment in a lovely part of town, in very easy walking distance to shops, cafes, Dr surgery, activities that they enjoy etc. They have kept themselves active and happy by getting involved in loads of activities and have adjusted these as they have aged. Their children don't live nearby and when they see them they do interesting things that they all enjoy, often getting a train/plane to somewhere else to meet up and all have a break whilst they are still fit enough to do that. I have no doubt that when one of them passes, the other will keep on with activities and seeing local friends of various ages that they have made in these retirement years.
Whereas my parents refused to consider leaving their large, rather isolated, house and spent their retirement trying (and failing largely) refusing to join any sort of activities etc with the excuse that they were too busy with housework/gardening/doing errands for ungrateful family members. Visiting them almost always involved just sitting in their house and/or doing a list of jobs for them that they couldn't quite manage. Which is fine, but they would never consider taking up an invitation to go out somewhere/do something interesting because they always felt there was something more pressing to do.
Their health and mobility declined rather quickly and now DM is alone in a large house, unable to drive, with no public transport and nothing in walking distance. She has not made any new friends in the last 20 years and all her old friends have either died, live a long way away, or are unwell themselves. So she is entirely reliant on a small number of family members who are working and have their own lives to lead, so she spends too much time alone but is so entrenched in the habit of being 'too busy' that she still won't go to any social groups/days out.

Sounds like you might have met my parents! (and to be fair, I'm very proud of them for it)

@EmotionalBlackmail interestingly there’s a couple in mid to late 70s I often meet and chat to at a particular cafe here - they go in most mornings. She is always off to something interesting , still swims several times a week, does Pilates, is in great shape, and always has something to talk about - they have lived all over too, US, far east etc - and yes many years ago they sold their house and bought a great flat on the edge of town - love seeing them -

I think we have the same parents!

100%. As the people I mentioned before, they aren't simply lonely or alone because they've made time and effort to make new connections and relationships. I always think it's those that make no effort to socialise out their family that are the most lonely. There was a good article on this in the guardian about a book called Joyspan on this very topic.

I think the previous PP that is being told they are morbid, strange or obsessed would do well to reflect on this and what they can do to work towards a positive mindset to help build lifelong connections. No one is going to be motivated to spend their time with someone who is so doom and gloom!

Agree with this @EmotionalBlackmail.
My DM has a friend in their home country who I sometimes call now because DM can’t really speak that well anymore. Friend is same age as DM but is bright, jolly, has her cat for company and does some after school childminding for a neighbours DD. Not bad for 87. At first I phoned her out of duty, but now actually I quite enjoy speaking to her, she is upbeat and self reliant.
Of course I have to remind myself that DM cannot help her health issues, but she’s never been a terribly positive person and quite critical of others. I know I have tendencies that way myself so I make a deliberate effort to be interested in others and particularly in friends DCs as it’s good to talk to people of different ages. It’s also one of the reasons I want to get back to work - I enjoy talking to the young people and getting a feeling of what they enjoy doing and what are the typical concerns.

It’s surely about mindset? I can think of several elderly women I know who never had children but who have made an effort to cultivate relationships across generations, by being interested in people and being involved in local activities. They’re not facing a lonely old age because there are multiple people
who look out for them and want to spend time with them. Because they’re nice, good company, interested in others and have a natural curiosity which means they’ve never stopped learning.

They’re the people I choose to go and have a coffee and a chat with, because I like them and I value their advice. Which cannot be said for the elderly people I’m related to!

Honestly these blogs you are reading are just emotional self harm. My husbands godmother who is in her 60s has no family (her brother and parents are dead and no children or nieces or nephews). She and her husband are well known in their local community, she goes to music festivals around the world and has loads of time with close friends. Another family friend again with no children etc has been on safari and to Japan this year. And they aren't the only people. They certainly aren't living their life in their 60s, doom and gloom, with nothing positive in their life nor are they alone or lonely.

Perhaps read blogs from people who are childless and older and are living rich full lives as they will be plenty of them. If you've told yourself your life will be lonely and you'll be alone with nothing positive then that's how you'll probably be. If you continue to paint and view yourself as some tragic helpless victim then you'll never move into a positive mindset where you can make action to live a positive life.

There's loads that you can do that's in your control to change your life but its entirely up to you but it certainly isn't going to happen by reading doom mongering blogs.

This is so true. In my time working in elderly care there have been maybe some (not all) cases where if they have not had children that maybe parts they've found getting older harder but for the most part as you say it hasn't been all that different or dramatically worse than if they had children. I certainly haven't noticed them being more "alone" or less lonely either. Most people have I meet who have adult children, their children are busy with their own lives as what should be expected. Not that they don't love or provide support to their parents, but they have their own lives to lead too as they should!

Oh I agree, but I would have liked children for other reasons too. The lack of support in old age which comes from not having them is like another kick in the teeth. I have read blogs from older people who are alone without family, and they all say how difficult and sad it is. It's a struggle to find anything positive. I guess that is why I am looking for 'solutions' - nobody wants to think of themself as old, ill, lonely and alone. It's not a nice future to face.

When I make friends, I don't tell them that I would like to still be friends in old age. I never mention it. But I would like to have long term connections with people, if that makes sense. Some people achieve that with their siblings (not everyone, I know though). Or they have friends they have had since childhood. Through no real fault of my own, I don't have this. For me it's about being less lonely now too. This is a separate issue to old age care though.

But your sole reason for having children shouldn't have been for support for yourself. I work in elderly care and what happens to me when I'm older didn't even cross my mind when deciding to have children. They aren't guarantee of anything, they could move away or have health concerns of their own. Many people aren't having children either so you're not in a unique position.

And if I'm not mistaken, you have a partner so they'd be your next of kin anyway. I can appreciate it being a concern but it seems like you make every decision in your life in connection to what happens when your older such as making friends so they'll be a companion to you when your older. It's a massive pressure to put on people.

It's a long time before any of this will be an issue for you and I can understand its a worry but if its taking over your life and stopping you living in the present then it is a problem and one you should perhaps seek support for. Honestly it's pointless researching places that might not even exist when you need them.

It wouldn’t necessarily have to be a retirement community. Surely some kind of integrated community with a mixture of bungalows (sensible ones without enormous gardens to maintain), family housing, accessible flats suitable for single people/couples/small family with a local residential and nursing home,
on a bus route with nearby shops, medical centre, play areas, library etc would be an ideal?

Looking back at my parents’, GP’s and great-GP’s generations they also all worked close to where they lived. Often the women weren’t working, or were doing something very local for pin money. All the ones at work saw people
at work who also lived locally, used the same shops, leisure facilities (park, church etc), doctor and hospital. If you had an ill older relative, then chances are people at work knew them too, or were using the same hospital for someone in their family.

It all feels a bit claustrophobic to me, but, apart from temporary student jobs, have never lived and worked in the same town. I have always commuted.

My godmother died about a year ago. She had really wonderful care from her nephew, supplemented by her other goddaughter (I did a bit) plus visits from friends made over a lifetime. She had to go straight into a care home when medical issues got to a certain level - tbh in her case that would probably always have been the case due to the severity of what happened to her. It doesn’t always look the same as the situation for people who have children, but I’m also not sure it is dramatically worse either. She lived an incredibly full and social life right up until age 83.