MIL learned helplessness, FIL enables

What you've described from her being babied, and then palmed off to her husband who has taken care of her, and how she can't go anywhere alone even to the shops 100 yards away really does sound like undiagnosed neurodivergence in an elderly lady. Restricted and/or repetetive behaviours, rigid routines and schedules, social anxiety. Obviously we wouldn't know for sure, we are mumsnet, and can only go off what you tell us, but it really does sound like she's had social scaffolding around her by her family because she's not been able to cope since childhood, but is of a generation where this was not really well understood or diagnosed in women.

Her husband sounds lovely, and sounds like a solid partner for her, but we all age. She probably will need some adult social care support if her husband goes into a care home.

You're right, she probably is physically capable of doing things for herself, but being physically capable and mentally capable are 2 different things.

She’s not even 70 yet. She could easily live another 30 years. That’s a huge care home bill. Assisted living perhaps. But a care home seems an unlikely solution.

No use getting frustrated, it is what it is. I do think she seems ND. I work in the industry and have two ND children.
You need to be focussing your energy on getting a rock solid plan ready to put her into some sort of care home if FIL goes first (and he will).
Don't pick her character apart, you need everyone on your side with this. Proactive and to the point; come on everyone we all know dear, dear MIL will need the upmost support and care! Wonderful FIL has done such a fine job supporting her we need to make sure she is looked after if properly if he goes first.
Make it clear you are doing this FOR MIL. For her benefit, not yours. Make the plan with FIL, the siblings and DH.
A care home with the family managing her money for her is what is needed for everyone's sanity. No plan and your DH is absolutely FIL no 2.

Yes agree with latest responses. It doesn’t really matter why she and FIL are the way they are, you’re not going to change things at their age and getting angry about it doesn’t achieve anything.

Put her into a home/assisted living.

She will never change now at this age .

Wow, you have summed that up beautifully.
X

I used to work with a woman, in her thirties at the time, who wouldn’t do anything for herself. Her dh picked her up and dropped her off anywhere she wanted to go. He handled all the money, he decided on holidays and big purchases. She couldn’t even turn the heating on.
Nit an age thing in their case, she just liked being babied, took it as a compliment as proof of how much she was loved.
Just watch your dh doesn’t get earmarked to step into fils shoes.

Totally agree. This is classic ASD presentation, speaking as a parent of someone with autism. The dysfunction is internal - auto meaning self - and not easily spotted from the outside. Dependence on a loved one allows them to function. Many women of your mil’s age have not been diagnosed op. Their difficulties were previously explained as “nerves”.

Not going out unaccompanied. Not involving herself with gc, could be consistent with an ND diagnosis.

At least consider it as a possibility op. Very few people choose to live such a limited live. It may look like she can help it, but maybe she is facing struggles that you can’t see?

My uncle Charlie was like this.

he grew up in a house with three other siblings. Two married and two didn’t.

him and uncle Joe lived all their lives in what had been the family home and then retired together down to Bournemouth where my grandma and granddad lived (grandma was his sister).

uncle Joe did everything for him. When he had to go into a care home (stroke) Charlie was completely lost, he was 77 and couldn’t cook or do laundry and had no idea of how to pay bills.

he’d worked as a painter and decorator for what was London county council for forty years.

my grandma got him into a care home and his and Joe’s house was sold and the money split between them. He was there for a couple of years before he died and by all accounts was very sociable and popular.

She can go into a sheltered housing or retirement-type situation when FIL is no longer there if she has the money where she would have things done for her.

If she had a job which she only gave up because of marriage and managed to bring up children and take them to school and back then she was obviously quite capable of doing normal things. It seems she has been enabled to be helpless in a co-dependent situation.

No way she can stop that. He will most likely take his dad place.

Yes, she will be your charge.

a shame we can have all these info before getting married! Lol

but in your case, you did. You just didn’t put 1 + 1. I am sorry for FIL.

Agree that your main issue here is stopping your husband become FIL number 2.

Both are to blame. You can’t change any of it. FIL is the puppeteer and probably enjoyed having this power. MIL the puppet who should have cut the strings but wouldn’t or couldn’t. It’s a very bog standard dynamic that develops all too often, especially between men and women in marriage. You have to step back from it and let your husband do his thing as the son in this performance. How much can he stand to see his mother suffer? To what extent will her children help her, despite everything? That’s for them to decide. All you can do is protect yourself and give what you feel able to the situation, without expecting to change her or get anything in return. She is not your mother. But she is a human being who needs access to food and basic care. If she can’t or won’t provide that for herself, someone has to do it, or watch her starve to death in her own filth. This is the stark reality of life. This is the choice we all have to make. This is the adult stuff they warn us about. What can you, your husband and everyone else around her live with?

But nd can appear capable but aren’t. They struggle with executive function, social norms and overwhelm. They often choose to retreat because their anxiety ( which they may not recognise) stops them doing stuff.

The elderly need care. Just treat her like that as she will be one day.

DH can arrange a day a week to taje her to the post office for cash and then to the shops where she can pay for it and then home.

once a month to the hairdressers or whatever. If she needs carers contact social work to arrange.

dont expect her to shop on the internet as she will go on a scam site and cannot be trusted to not lose all her cash!! Do it for her.

This.

This person sound neurodivergent to me.

Speaking as the parent of DC with ND

One of the things you learn as a SEN parent is that people don’t become capable of things just because you need them to be.

My being unable to sustain looking after all the daily life needs of 3 other people doesn’t mean that they will be able to ‘just learn’ or ‘step up’, much as I’d like them to.

A huge part of the problem with mental illness / neurodevelopmental disorders is that the person who needs support often has no understanding of how much help & work they are requiring from people, and will only accept it from family rather than ‘outsiders’.

And there’s still no real framework for understanding / assessing the daily life care needs of someone who is neither physically nor intellectually disabled, but has a profound nervous system disability that essentially makes them a shut in who can’t manage basic life tasks.

I agree with all of this. Of course it’s any passing females “fault”, whether it’s mum, wife, girlfriend, sister etc

I entirely understand the frustration, but hoping to change people is always a long shot!
Best concentrate on how you can arrange for MiL to stay alive and safe without your family paying for it all.
What goes on inside your head is your business though - if you daydream about chloroforming her and sending her to the Canaries with a new bank card and passport to make her own way back, if that helps you stay sane, it's all good. We certainly won't judge here!!

If DH is on board, I'd suggest he tackles it when (if it's a 'when') FIL comes out of hospital. Sit both parents down together and say that he won't be able to take over his father's role should he die first. So their choices are either to start teaching MIL how to cope now, whilst FIL is still here, or to accept that she goes into a care home if she is widowed. It's their choice.

If DH is not on board with this, then OP will have to issue a similar 'choice' to DH. "Your responsibilities to your own wife and children are xyz. If you continue to do these, you can spend all your hobby time looking after your mother if you want to. If you are considering abandoning some of your responsibilities to pander to your selfish mother, I will struggle to see you as fully invested in our marriage."

I understand some posters are saying that MIL may be ND and therefore completely blameless. I think that can be the case, but in this particular scenario isn't, because MIL previously held down a job. She obviously can function, if she wants to.

That sounds really hard OP.

My friend's mother is like this. He and his wife are currently living in a static in mother's garden looking after her every need. She does not tolerate any outside help/carers/motivation to be self sufficient. They have given in to her 'needs' gradually over time (through guilt and habit) and now find themselves in an awful position.

Mother does nothing and is unwilling/incapable of doing the smallest thing for herself despite the fact that she is not ill or very elderly. She has just allowed herself to return entirely to babyhood. It has always been somewhat like this but has become extreme.

All I can say is that you will never change her. All you can do is put in systems and boundaries that protect you, your family, your time and your finances. Otherwise you might end up living in a static in icy November. (Being silly there, but you know what I mean).