Mum has dementia. Disagreement with Social Services about level of care required

@Blueuggboots not saying you are giving away and you are in that awkward zone financially. But so often you see that shortsighted comment and your predicament illustrates the drawback perfectly. You know your mum would be better off in a care home, she wants to move in but without the ready cash you are stuck. At least she can once the flat is sold. If she had done what so many suggest and either spent it given away her money you would have been in an even worse position.

Unfortunately it is a bit of a catch 22. My uncle probably should have been in residential care I would say a year before it actually happened. But I don’t think social services would have agreed at that point. I remember having the discussion with the other LPA saying we could just decide ourselves to move him but if we do that without SS agreement what happens when the money runs out? Which it would have done within a year/18 months without the sale of his property.

we had to go down the carers route first which we didn’t think would work for him and sure enough he got worse and the whole thing clearly wasn’t working within a few months.

@Blueuggboots those of us who've been round the block know just how terribly high the threshold for residential care is. That's why we roll our eyes when there are posts from people who say they will give away their money so their care is funded.

Blue - please stop taking rubbish. You will probably scare people. £250k or over £600k per year is complete shite. No one will be paying this.

Yes sometimes you are thrown into it through circumstances or a sudden change with no understanding of the process.

I had case of someone with 2 carers over 24 hours fully funded by social care. More usual is 1:1 over 24 hours. Also not funded by CHC.Challenging behaviours are not seen as a health need.

You arent entitled. The threshold for funded care is dangerously high and you just wanted whats best and safest for your mum. Good luck OP.

Unfortunately this often isn't true.

In patient hospital, SW, in home support often do not understand that every two hours means exactly that.

The worst was in hospital, we were begging for the medication (that we usually administered but they had taken off us) but they wouldn't change the order of the ward round. Took us three days to get a Parkinson's nurse in to force a change.

None of the funding decisions are made because of being broke. It's about protecting Adults from over zealous relatives forcing them into care when they fare better in terms of well being at home (not saying that is the case here but most relatives jump at the chance of resi care for solvable problems)

You absolutely are scaremongering.
If someone’s care needs are at the extreme level of care then the likelihood is that they would qualify for CHCF, and the LA would make sure this is applied for.
The person would have to need 2 carers 24/7 to cost £8000 a month!

Just want to say thanks for posting that. My uncle has recently moved into residential care. The other LPA was given a figure for the amount we will have to pay when the 4 week assessment period is over. It’s £1040 per week and I can now see where this figure is derived from.

The definition does fit where my uncle is at the moment in terms of his needs. it’s helpful to have the official view.

Believe me, if she can do all this then she absolutely does not meet the threshold for needing residential care.
She may want to live in a residential home for company, for meals to be provided, for laundry to be done, but that’s not the same as NEED.

A deferred payment can be used if someone is professionally assessed as needing to go into a care home, not if the family think they do. The elderly person also has to be able to agree to a deferred payment scheme - if they have detention they may well be assessed as having no capacity to make that decision.

I am not scaremongering! The most I ever heard of, at a workshop with a solicitor in community care law about 15 years ago was £600,000 pa. She did comment that she couldn’t help thinking, health should have been contributing to the funding!

I am a retired nurse and my experience is that you will have to try carers at the maximum 4 times a day that then fails before SS woukd step-in snd pay for a care home by putting a charge on her flat until sold. I believe the interest charges are quite high. It’s not right but there it is. All councils are broke!!

OP I feel for you. We are suffering crisis after crisis with my mother in law who has Alzheimer's who is currently 'caring' for my FIL who has terminal cancer and is in and out of hospital and has nearly died several times but keeps recovering and then going back home. They currently have carers 4 times a day but they are both pig headed and stubborn and refuse cleaners, meals on wheels, etc and pretend they are coping. Every time FIL goes into hospital MIL almost has a breakdown and starts being very aggressive with her family members. She is not capable of looking after herself or my FIL. Every time he goes in hospital he is malnourished and dehydrated: social services have assessed her 3 times and say even though they know she doesn't have capacity she is passing their capacity test. So they advise carers 4 times a day is sufficient. They say until something bad happens (which it will) they won't act against her will. The medication you mentioned stood out to me, she will NOT remember this on her own. Getting my MIL stable on her meds was a long and hard battle with her. They are now locked away in a safe she doesn't have the code and the carers give her meds morning and evening so if your mum needs 4 meds a day she needs 4 visits if she isn't in a home doesn't she? Like your mum she can't shop, can't make a shopping list, can't cook, can't even really put away a Tesco delivery. I really really feel for you as the system isn't working for us, basically until a crisis happens we feel like we are on our own. And the whole situation has almost broken my DH and his brother. It feels like we are fighting everything and everyone including the parents in law that we are trying to help. My MIL and FIL also get these obsessive fixations, does that sound familiar? It could be a lost phone charger that ruined their entire day (both their phones were charged and a new one could've been delivered by Amazon the day after) or their usual obsession is the Ring doorbell. It's hard to talk them down from these and it usually ends up with my DH having to leave work to resolve them. You mentioning the banking app made me think of this that's all. Anyway I have no answers but I just really wanted to tell you, you have my utmost sympathy you really do

Blue - that is not true. £20k plus per month??? Stop scare mongering!

They will pay more than £8,000 PCM. I have across people costing £250,000+ pa.

Indeed. I worked in adult services and said in my post that it hinges on the LA assessment and also pointed out that the assessment often does not reflect the reality that relatives are seeing..... no-one's fault .... it is impossible to truly assessment someone's needs in the time available to the SWs .... they just see a snapshot.
Relatives often have to be very firm to get the real picture across as they do not want to achieve the safe care of a residential home only after a fall has happened.

My aunt, who had Parkinsons, had her medication through time release patches. This was 15 years ago though. Is that an option for your mother?

Our family went through similar with our mum. I have to agree your mum is nowhere near the threshold for residential care. We went through every type of tech/gadget to help at different stages of her cognitive decline e.g. cctv in the house and trackers in case she wandered. The decline is so hard to watch. I think you have to try the 2 (hopefully 4 visits) a day for now (although carers were never punctual). We had a different scenario as when my mum was competent she said she always wanted to be at home. This bought it's own challenges.