mid 80s difficult dm - I tried everything

@frenchpharmacy oh I do that too already, I’m the person who sorted his move out, found his bungalow, found him a great stay between houses, sorted his removals - I do feel sorry that he’s lost a lot of his friends due to them popping off , but do also agree that some of the choices he made led to this, no interests outside of work, not ever interested in a mixed age friendship group etc , won’t go out his way to join ‘anything’

Oh I do totally agree- and yes he never did that , nor cultivated any interests outside of work - Im in same position as you except I’m the person in their60s with friends in their 40s!!

A lot of this is his choice though. The older people I know who seem to age the best are the ones who’ve made the effort to cultivate a range of friendships and interests across the ages, not just with their own age group.

One of my friends is almost twice my age. I have a coffee with her periodically. She’s funny, clever, gives excellent life advice but is also a brilliant listener.

And yet, literally just had a convo about so-and-so's family who all live near by 😂😭😂

Yes, it’s deliberate. Possibly not thought through as a process but it’s a manipulative technique. Coupled with that generation of women were often brought up not to directly express their needs (or be able to identify them), so they learnt manipulation as a tactic to manage things.

I find the bingo technique others have mentioned helpful when dealing with it. Or muttering something like “Hmm, that must be hard” so you’ve acknowledged the moaning but not offered a solution. Sometimes I’ve gone for “goodness, how does she find the time, I could never manage that” in relation to the other daughter comments.

You can pretty much guarantee that even if all these other daughters exist, they’re probably being moaned about by their own mothers for not doing enough. Because nothing is ever enough. I did discover that one of the daughters I was being compared to is twenty years older
than me, retired and has no children!

I did feel the same. Which is why I told her to stop
Whether they are/were deliberate doesn't matter, you can still ask her to stop.

You cannot make her stop.

But you can choose to cut her out of your life.

My FIL used to tell my husband that he should have had a daughter instead of all boys because then someone would move in and look after him and MIL, DH just used to say too late for that. And he used to go on about how his brother's children take his brother on days out, except DH had given up trying to take him out because he never wanted to leave housebound MIL for even half an hour with someone staying with her. DH just used to tell him it was his choice not to have outings.
He also used to moan about how hard it was to look after MIL and how he needed a break but rejected funded respite offers. Because family should be moving in and sleeping on a chair to enable him to have a break (except he'd still interfere).
You just have to learn to shrug it off

@frenchpharmacy I’m glad you’ve found solidarity here and it is true that we are conditioned (both by parents and by society) from birth to always feel we should sacrifice ourselves - and want to do do. So as well as the criticism and behaviour of your mum, you feel deep down like you’re doing daughtering wrong. Even though she told you she was opting out herself of grandmothering.

We can also confirm that being closer will not make anything better for you or be enough for her. Forgive yourself for keeping going back for more - and you can reduce or stop that if it is consuming you. I try to just do what I want to and not what I feel I should - and bingo during or distraction afterwards helps. Keep talking to us here too.

IMO all deliberate & manipulative, designed to make you feel guilty.

You have to accept that nothing will ever be enough. Reading ‘ You are not the problem’ really helped me.

💐

I do feel quite sorry for many older people- whilst at the same time finding them bloody frustrating and needy . My FIL now 86 is a lovely old guy, very intelligent, mobile, self sufficient ( no carer or cleaner etc) however he does call my H every evening and sometimes several times a day about total non entity stuff - but nearly all his friends have died, he’s in an area where he doesn’t know many people and a lot of local things for older people are no longer a thing ‘day centres’ etc or he finds them depressing and full of old unwell people. He has been on his own for 6 years now and whilst he is amazing for his age it’s a little sad that it comes for many with a fair bit of almost self imposed isolation. — he simply doesn’t want to join stuff I suggest - I know my H finds the nightly ritual calls a little depressing - his other son simply doesn’t call him more than maybe once a week and for some reason my FIL doesn’t call them very often either- I just feel a bit sad for him as he constantly says ‘I’m yesterdays man’ - anyone got an attractive ( he still likes good looking women) homely , good cook, 75 years , nicely dressed, solvent mum I could hook him up with - lol!!! I think ironically this would cheer him up no end - he lives in a funky town too , very nice bungalow

Mentioning the daughters - yes it's obviously deliberate.

The garden - also deliberate, the only solution she wants is for you to do it.

Have you tried Mumsnetting while she's talking and just going 'mmm' every now and then to sound like you are listening? Love the Tetris idea as well. It's not as if she listens to you so why should you be listening back?

Spelling out Fuck Off with your tongue on the roof of your mouth is also surprisingly effective.

Of course it's deliberate. Her very transparent plan is that you will realize that you should drop everything and come and look after her.
I'd say most of what she says is to make you feel bad.

Have you tried playing a game on your phone like Tetris when you're talking to her so you only have half your concentration on the conversation?

Probably, but again what can you do about it? Nothing, so you just need to rinse and repeat ‘that’s nice, but I live here mum, can you sort a cleaner/gardener etc they’d help you out.’Just don’t rise to the insinuations.

@frenchpharmacy they are deliberate to guilt trip you into doing things for her. It’s manipulative and coercive-try not to get sucked in. I did and it made me ill. Even then nothing I did was right so I stopped.

One of the things that really helped when my FIL was an arse was a bingo card method I read about years ago. Put all the frequent flyer things on a list (other peoples family doing stuff, never see you, I'll die alone - whatever) and then tick them off. Just the sillyness of having a bingo card and the distraction of getting 'X thinks you are terrible' and instead of it hurting your brain says 'yay, thats another one' takes the sting out. Make yourself a bingo win tub of treats.

Also, you don't have to respond to things or challenge them. Just going for 'Hmm, really' or 'interesting thought' gives them enough response to stop a rant but neutral for your brain.

Its worth exploring with your therapist that you need to let go of the hope that she will have a lifelong turn and appreciate/celebrate you and be the mum you deserved. She won't change (in fact most get worse) and accepting and processing that is key to coping with the amount of contact you want

1. I told my DM to stop telling me about all the other daughters.
2. Stop trying to fix whatever it is she's complaining about. If she was someone who would wanted advice fine go ahead, but she does not, she just wants to complain. It's pointless, and you are wasting your time and energy. Say "Hmm, oh dear" and change the subject.

how much of her grumbles and moans actually genuinely need any input from you?

My mum has a weekly gardener now at £25 a week, your mum is actually doing a lot of it herself which is great for her overall health. None of this conversation requires any actual action from you, as a pp said, play bingo with her very predictable grumbles. So sympathetic noises and ‘well you do have the option of a gardener mum, why don’t you call the chap you had before? Oh ok your choice at least it’s getting you outside.’

if it’s nothing you can genuinely help with, which let’s face it from a different country most of it is, just sympathetic noises, a couple of suggestions a few ‘ I get that but it is an option for you’. Lots of ‘No I can’t do that my life is here’.

One thing I have found with my mum as she’s got older is she gets very stressed if schedules change, if the cleaner doesn’t come on the day she’s supposed to, so set expectations ahead of time, One of the big mistakes I’ve made is popping in on my way to a hobby on a Sunday so she now expects it gets annoyed if we don’t and manufactures excuses for us to go up, one day it was literally the clothes horse was wonky she’d phoned us a bit drunk and my lovely DH felt sorry for her. (It’s an hour round trip to put the bloody clothes horse up)

Ive found the best way to handle this is to set expectations ahead of time. Try and limit your phone calls to a couple of times a week, but vary the times, start by oh mum I can’t phone Thursday as I’ve a thing, but I’ll try and call over the weekend.

From what you’ve said though the biggest issue for you (and me tbh) is switching off and away from it when you put the phone down. What do you do for you, I find the gym and cold water swimming helps. The cold water especially as it completely switches off all those voices in your head.

If she calls at 10.30 and you don’t want to speak with her, don’t answer the phone. You do have a choice.

Just say no . Fgs you don’t have to take her calls when it doesn’t suit you . Tell her you’ll ring once a week on a given day to check in and that’s all . I don’t understand all this angst about contact with her . Set boundaries and keep to them or go NC . She’s in her 80’s she’s only a threat if you allow her to be .

You need to metaphorically put your fingers in your ears and lalala, can't hear your. Just say "oh" and no further reaction. Or have a mental bingo card and tick off as she complains. Have to stop yourself yelling "house" out loud though.